5 ms·

When I read the title, I imagined this would be about social and romantic situations. In personal contexts, of course you have the right to say no with no furth

When I read the title, I imagined this would be about social and romantic situations. In personal contexts, of course you have the right to say no with no further explanation. In professional contexts... you're being paid to be to serve the business. If someone who's part of that business asks you something, you don't get to just say no unless you're the CEO. You can say no and explain that you're not the right person, or you can direct them elsewhere or any number of other things, but when you agree to take money to do a job, you obligate yourself to do things like answer questions reasonably.

LudwigNagasena 5y ago
> When I read the title, I imagined this would be about social and romantic situations. In personal contexts, of course you have the right to say no with no further explanation. Maybe you need to rethink that. Do your friends really warrant less respect than colleagues?
- beachy 5y ago
  Personal contexts are different. Quite acceptable to say just "No" to: - do you want me to get you a drink? - may I kiss you? - I hear they're doing shrooms next door, shall we join them?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jensson 5y ago
    In what way can't you just say a plain "no" to: - do you want to take my shift? - Do you know how this api works? - Do you want to attend the meeting this afternoon? I don't see how personal vs professional changes anything.
    - sdoering 5y ago
      In professional settings you will often encounter requests like: - (Can you) Do this report by tomorrow? - I had a report due yesterday, but I don't understand how to login to XYZ to get the data. Can you show me right now? The first one is (depending on who asks) potentially difficult to answer with a short 'No'. The second one may be answerable with 'No' but people like these will spread the word that you are difficult to work with and unfriendly. They will more often than not taint your reputation and create problems in your compensation talks (as being likeable and easy to work with is often a factor in these things).
    - beachy 5y ago
      I would say the first one is really a personal question, so just No is fine. As to the second two, sying "No" with no explanation would probably mark you out as a bit of a dick/ difficult to work with.
- gtowey 5y ago
  > Maybe you need to rethink that. Do your friends really warrant less respect than colleagues Are your friends paying you to complete whatever tasks they ask of you? Really what it means is this: A friend may ask something of you and you decline with a stated reason. Then they start finding ways to tell you your reason is invalid and then therefore you shouldn't refuse. This is the part that's disrespectful. Sometimes you are willing to have a discussion and change your mind, but there is too much of a culture where people think they can always out argue your "no". With people who don't respect this boundary, giving a reason is never good enough and just gives them fodder to exhaust you with pointless arguments. Sometimes you really are not willing to change your mind. This is where the title of this article applies -- don't give them any material to go on and end with a "no" alone.
  - antisthenes 5y ago
    No.
  - sdoering 5y ago
    > Then they start finding ways to tell you your reason is invalid The moment I cut them out of my life. Whoever feels entitled to denigrating the reasons I state for not doing something (in the context of friendship) and so blatantly disrespects me by showing that they feel their needs trump mine is nothing I need in my life. I cut clients loose that disrespect me in a professional manner, why should I deal with such people privately. > With people who don't respect this boundary, giving a reason is never good enough Agreed. But to me it is a great filter as described above. It works to my advantage in triggering people I don't want to have in my life to reveal themselves. A positive example: My SO and me are providing a foster home to stray cats rescued in neutering campaigns (cats that were to ill/young/hurt to be returned to the spot they were captured at for neutering). It happenes that we regularly receive request if we could take in a cat or more. As we are doing this for different groups they never know if we have capacity left. So we sometimes have to say no. One group tried to argue that one more cat would not burden us much more. They really did not respect our no. Since then we don't work with this group anymore and concentrate one the two animal welfare groups that actually respect the people in the back (the foster homes and others).
- klodolph 5y ago
  I think you've twisted "personal contexts" into "friends" and "explaining yourself when you say no" into "respecting other people".
automatoney 5y ago
Agreed on the personal contexts - and also where I expected the article to go. I think a better argument for professional contexts is that everyone is expected to maintain a certain level of professionalism and politeness - including CEOs. Or in other words I don't think the obligation comes from the company hierarchy, but from being in a professional context at all (for example working with someone at a different company). A solid article on the personal context no's for anyone reading by is by Captain Awkward: https://captainawkward.com/2011/03/23/the-art-of-no/ https://captainawkward.com/2011/03/23/the-art-of-no/
- Sxubas 5y ago
  Thanks for sharing the article, I found it very insightful
watwut 5y ago
> If someone who's part of that business asks you something, you don't get to just say no unless you're the CEO. Of course you get to say no. You are not paid to "serve the business" as if business owned you. You are paid for specific role, specific amount of time, specific achievements. And that pretty often includes saying no to other people in same organization.
- ahartmetz 5y ago
  This is a typical big company attitude that can make work miserable. It helps a lot if everybody tries to keep track of the overall situation and tries to improve it. That doesn't mean that you're a slave, it just means that you do good work. Obviously don't burn yourself out trying to improve something that the organization resists to improve (unless that is your role). Edit: Parent is talking more about requests of others, I'm more talking about own initiative. That is an important difference. Getting "sidetracked" is much less frustrating if that is what you want to do.
  - watwut 5y ago
    This is super valid in small company too. Being unable to say effective no will make your life hell in small companies too ... even faster then in large one. The "you dont get to say no, because you are hired to serve the company" implies horrible workplace no matter what size of the company.

LudwigNagasena 5y ago

> When I read the title, I imagined this would be about social and romantic situations. In personal contexts, of course you have the right to say no with no further explanation. Maybe you need to rethink that. Do your friends really warrant less respect than colleagues?

beachy 5y ago
Personal contexts are different. Quite acceptable to say just "No" to: - do you want me to get you a drink? - may I kiss you? - I hear they're doing shrooms next door, shall we join them?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Jensson 5y ago
  In what way can't you just say a plain "no" to: - do you want to take my shift? - Do you know how this api works? - Do you want to attend the meeting this afternoon? I don't see how personal vs professional changes anything.
  - sdoering 5y ago
    In professional settings you will often encounter requests like: - (Can you) Do this report by tomorrow? - I had a report due yesterday, but I don't understand how to login to XYZ to get the data. Can you show me right now? The first one is (depending on who asks) potentially difficult to answer with a short 'No'. The second one may be answerable with 'No' but people like these will spread the word that you are difficult to work with and unfriendly. They will more often than not taint your reputation and create problems in your compensation talks (as being likeable and easy to work with is often a factor in these things).
  - beachy 5y ago
    I would say the first one is really a personal question, so just No is fine. As to the second two, sying "No" with no explanation would probably mark you out as a bit of a dick/ difficult to work with.
gtowey 5y ago
> Maybe you need to rethink that. Do your friends really warrant less respect than colleagues Are your friends paying you to complete whatever tasks they ask of you? Really what it means is this: A friend may ask something of you and you decline with a stated reason. Then they start finding ways to tell you your reason is invalid and then therefore you shouldn't refuse. This is the part that's disrespectful. Sometimes you are willing to have a discussion and change your mind, but there is too much of a culture where people think they can always out argue your "no". With people who don't respect this boundary, giving a reason is never good enough and just gives them fodder to exhaust you with pointless arguments. Sometimes you really are not willing to change your mind. This is where the title of this article applies -- don't give them any material to go on and end with a "no" alone.
- antisthenes 5y ago
  No.
- sdoering 5y ago
  > Then they start finding ways to tell you your reason is invalid The moment I cut them out of my life. Whoever feels entitled to denigrating the reasons I state for not doing something (in the context of friendship) and so blatantly disrespects me by showing that they feel their needs trump mine is nothing I need in my life. I cut clients loose that disrespect me in a professional manner, why should I deal with such people privately. > With people who don't respect this boundary, giving a reason is never good enough Agreed. But to me it is a great filter as described above. It works to my advantage in triggering people I don't want to have in my life to reveal themselves. A positive example: My SO and me are providing a foster home to stray cats rescued in neutering campaigns (cats that were to ill/young/hurt to be returned to the spot they were captured at for neutering). It happenes that we regularly receive request if we could take in a cat or more. As we are doing this for different groups they never know if we have capacity left. So we sometimes have to say no. One group tried to argue that one more cat would not burden us much more. They really did not respect our no. Since then we don't work with this group anymore and concentrate one the two animal welfare groups that actually respect the people in the back (the foster homes and others).
klodolph 5y ago
I think you've twisted "personal contexts" into "friends" and "explaining yourself when you say no" into "respecting other people".

automatoney 5y ago

Agreed on the personal contexts - and also where I expected the article to go. I think a better argument for professional contexts is that everyone is expected to maintain a certain level of professionalism and politeness - including CEOs. Or in other words I don't think the obligation comes from the company hierarchy, but from being in a professional context at all (for example working with someone at a different company). A solid article on the personal context no's for anyone reading by is by Captain Awkward: https://captainawkward.com/2011/03/23/the-art-of-no/ https://captainawkward.com/2011/03/23/the-art-of-no/

Sxubas 5y ago
Thanks for sharing the article, I found it very insightful

watwut 5y ago

> If someone who's part of that business asks you something, you don't get to just say no unless you're the CEO. Of course you get to say no. You are not paid to "serve the business" as if business owned you. You are paid for specific role, specific amount of time, specific achievements. And that pretty often includes saying no to other people in same organization.

ahartmetz 5y ago
This is a typical big company attitude that can make work miserable. It helps a lot if everybody tries to keep track of the overall situation and tries to improve it. That doesn't mean that you're a slave, it just means that you do good work. Obviously don't burn yourself out trying to improve something that the organization resists to improve (unless that is your role). Edit: Parent is talking more about requests of others, I'm more talking about own initiative. That is an important difference. Getting "sidetracked" is much less frustrating if that is what you want to do.
- watwut 5y ago
  This is super valid in small company too. Being unable to say effective no will make your life hell in small companies too ... even faster then in large one. The "you dont get to say no, because you are hired to serve the company" implies horrible workplace no matter what size of the company.