4 ms·

This post resonates with me a lot, as I share many of the same complaints. The UI inconsistencies are one thing (that you would hope get ironed out over time),

by sylens 5y ago

This post resonates with me a lot, as I share many of the same complaints. The UI inconsistencies are one thing (that you would hope get ironed out over time), but the level of ads creeping ever higher is alarming. The “accidental” inclusion of an ad in Windows Explorer this week may have tipped their hand - if that’s the direction they are going, I’m moving off the platform entirely.

duskwuff 5y ago
> The UI inconsistencies are one thing (that you would hop get ironed out over time) I wouldn't get my hopes up. Microsoft seems to be introducing new UI frameworks -- each with their own slightly different appearance -- at an ever-increasing rate. If current trends continue, by 2030 there will be more Windows UI frameworks than developers using them. :)
- xattt 5y ago
  Are you saying that by 2030, there will be a custom UI framework for every developer out there? Beat that, Apple!
  - grishka 5y ago
    Isn't Apple's SwiftUI just a unified layer on top of AppKit/UIKit/WatchKit depending on the platform though?
    - sgjohnson 5y ago
      Yes, although there’s also Cocoa.
sbierwagen 5y ago
>The UI inconsistencies are one thing (that you would hope get ironed out over time) Windows 8 was released ten years ago. All the old-style control panel dialogs are still with us. Regedit will never get ported to the new UI toolkit.
- drsnow 5y ago
  WHY, though? It's genuinely infuriating
  - ripley12 5y ago
    It's complicated, but the short answer is that the Windows team messed up and there isn't really a good new native UI framework to migrate Regedit to. UWP was burdened with sandboxing+packaging requirements that made it very difficult to use, even for first-party software. They eventually figured that out and have made some attempts to lift UI stuff out of UWP (XAML Islands and WinUI 3), but they're both train wrecks (and not staffed with nearly enough people to put up a fight against Chromium).
- userbinator 5y ago
  One hopes it never will, because everything post-Win32 seems to be much worse. UWP (what is used for the new Control Panel/"Settings") is particularly frustrating. ...which is very strange that MS seems to be continuing to rewrite stuff in it, when it's already started saying things like this a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19873198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19873198
  - kitkat_new 5y ago
    whats so bad about UWP? it's way better than win32 (security, API, Windows integration)
    - Siira 5y ago
      The apps are slow. They are optimized for non-technical people using touch screens (though I haven’t tested that). And the rewrites suck because one needs to learn a new UI, and you would still need to find the old UI for a lot of purposes.
  - ripley12 5y ago
    > ...which is very strange that MS seems to be continuing to rewrite stuff in it From what I understand, the thinking is something like: - There currently aren't any great alternatives for an attractive, touch-friendly, modern-looking UI framework. UWP applications generally feel pretty good to use despite UWP's problems. - MS already has to support UWP apps forever (once something ships with Windows it's immortal), so they might as well take advantage of that support guarantee. The Windows team is currently investing heavily in Chromium/Edge/WebView2, but it's still fairly early days. I'd bet good money that within the next 5 years, web UI in some form will fully replace UWP for new first-party development.

by sylens 5y ago

duskwuff 5y ago

> The UI inconsistencies are one thing (that you would hop get ironed out over time) I wouldn't get my hopes up. Microsoft seems to be introducing new UI frameworks -- each with their own slightly different appearance -- at an ever-increasing rate. If current trends continue, by 2030 there will be more Windows UI frameworks than developers using them. :)

xattt 5y ago
Are you saying that by 2030, there will be a custom UI framework for every developer out there? Beat that, Apple!
- grishka 5y ago
  Isn't Apple's SwiftUI just a unified layer on top of AppKit/UIKit/WatchKit depending on the platform though?
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    Yes, although there’s also Cocoa.

sbierwagen 5y ago

>The UI inconsistencies are one thing (that you would hope get ironed out over time) Windows 8 was released ten years ago. All the old-style control panel dialogs are still with us. Regedit will never get ported to the new UI toolkit.

drsnow 5y ago
WHY, though? It's genuinely infuriating
- ripley12 5y ago
  It's complicated, but the short answer is that the Windows team messed up and there isn't really a good new native UI framework to migrate Regedit to. UWP was burdened with sandboxing+packaging requirements that made it very difficult to use, even for first-party software. They eventually figured that out and have made some attempts to lift UI stuff out of UWP (XAML Islands and WinUI 3), but they're both train wrecks (and not staffed with nearly enough people to put up a fight against Chromium).
userbinator 5y ago
One hopes it never will, because everything post-Win32 seems to be much worse. UWP (what is used for the new Control Panel/"Settings") is particularly frustrating. ...which is very strange that MS seems to be continuing to rewrite stuff in it, when it's already started saying things like this a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19873198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19873198
- kitkat_new 5y ago
  whats so bad about UWP? it's way better than win32 (security, API, Windows integration)
  - Siira 5y ago
    The apps are slow. They are optimized for non-technical people using touch screens (though I haven’t tested that). And the rewrites suck because one needs to learn a new UI, and you would still need to find the old UI for a lot of purposes.
- ripley12 5y ago
  > ...which is very strange that MS seems to be continuing to rewrite stuff in it From what I understand, the thinking is something like: - There currently aren't any great alternatives for an attractive, touch-friendly, modern-looking UI framework. UWP applications generally feel pretty good to use despite UWP's problems. - MS already has to support UWP apps forever (once something ships with Windows it's immortal), so they might as well take advantage of that support guarantee. The Windows team is currently investing heavily in Chromium/Edge/WebView2, but it's still fairly early days. I'd bet good money that within the next 5 years, web UI in some form will fully replace UWP for new first-party development.