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Tech destroyed journalism's ad-driven revenue model over a decade ago, and their attitude since then has been a mixture of inferiority complex and white-hot rag

Tech destroyed journalism's ad-driven revenue model over a decade ago, and their attitude since then has been a mixture of inferiority complex and white-hot rage and contempt. Also, hearing "learn to code" on Twitter pissed them off.

toyg 5y ago
TBF, "learn to code" pisses me off too, and I've already done it.
- civilized 5y ago
  I hear it at every code review
  - KoftaBob 5y ago
    Thanks for the laugh :)
- dymk 5y ago
  Why’s it piss you off?
  - toyg 5y ago
    Because it's like telling a poor person "just don't be poor", or a depressed person "just lighten up". Coding simply does not come easy to large swaths of the population, one has to respect that fact and don't assume we're all neurologically wired to talk to machines all day. Also, people might well be better suited to very different activities. Would we be richer, as a society, if Van Gogh had decided to drop this "paintings" business and start a boring but profitable civil-servant career instead? Last but not least, the value of each individual programmer, in a capitalistic society, inevitably decreases as the labor pool increases, with obvious consequences in the long run for the profitability of the profession. Car mechanics used to be respected and expensive professionals too.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Do you have a better idea for how society should determine where to direct society’s resources other than using prices? Prices and movements in prices indicate where supply is needed (or not needed). I have not yet seen a better mechanism.
      - vlovich123 5y ago
        It’s funny because the truly wealthy and powerful seem to rely more on favors and intangible relationships, not by putting a price tag on things. Indeed, we see money as a corrupting influence
      - DubiousPusher 5y ago
        So you are satisfied with a world wherein if the price the market puts on your labor is too low to ensure your survival, you are chaff?
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        That is not what I wrote. I asked what the better alternative is. Simply complaining makes for uninteresting conversation. I am not opposed to a universal basic income, given that all other subsidies are ceased. How would society increase the number of surgeons, who require a decade of intense study and risk to become one? How would society incentivize people to live 2 hours from the nearest hospital in order to farm the land and create food for the country? What would society have to do to incentivize people to work jobs where they have to commute somewhere to work, or many places for work, rather than work from their own home?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - snerbles 5y ago
      It's entirely driven by spite and class warfare. Elite politicians and journalists were the first to happily bark "learn to code" at freshly-unemployed blue collar workers with all of the apparent condescension you described. Others flinging the phrase back at later-unemployed journalists are merely returning proverbial fire, with subsequent Twitter bans meted out by those that can't take what they dish out.
- at_a_remove 5y ago
  "Learn To Code" was aimed at journalists after they published some derisive business at blue-collar workers, that laid off coal miners should "learn to code." Having it thrown back in their face is what irritates them.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Also, hearing "learn to code" on Twitter pissed them off. IIRC, the phrase "learn to code" was either coined or quickly co-opted by right-wing trolls to use to taunt journalists and others.
- baash05 5y ago
  Not really right wing trolls. It was in response to them telling other the same thing. It was never pointed at the blue collar people who lost their jobs, but instead pointed at elite people who had no compassion for those that had the world they grew up working in, being ripped from them. Oddly I see this as a "for the worker" phrase. Don't tell my 60 year old welder dad that just lost his 40 year job, that he should learn to code, and get a better job. Empathise with him, and come up with real plans. It was used to taunt journalists, and others who spouted the platitude.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > Not really right wing trolls. It was right wing trolls: /pol/ was involved [1]. > It was in response to them telling other the same thing. It was never pointed at the blue collar people who lost their jobs, but instead pointed at elite people who had no compassion for those that had the world they grew up working in, being ripped from them.... > It was used to taunt journalists, and others who spouted the platitude. No it wasn't. It was used to taunt journalists generally [1]. Your justification, frankly, is just bullshit meant to help justify acting like an asshole. The most charitable interpretation requires the taunters relying on sloppy stereotypes akin to someone who generalizes that all black people are criminals based on seeing one black guy mug someone. Except in this case, the taunters didn't even see someone get mugged, they just misinterpreted someone loaning someone some money. Look at the origin timeline: it was Mark Zuckerberg and Michael Bloomberg who were being condescending and aloof, and the journalists where just investigated the questions that condescension raised (e.g. Mike Bloomberg says they're not capable, but he's wrong). That was confirmed to me the last time someone tried to justify this taunting, and the only "example" they could provide of the supposed condescension of journalists was a sympathetic profile of some coal miners who did, in fact, learn to code, which the taunter-apologist thoroughly misinterpreted through their bias. [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code

toyg 5y ago

TBF, "learn to code" pisses me off too, and I've already done it.

civilized 5y ago
I hear it at every code review
- KoftaBob 5y ago
  Thanks for the laugh :)
dymk 5y ago
Why’s it piss you off?
- toyg 5y ago
  Because it's like telling a poor person "just don't be poor", or a depressed person "just lighten up". Coding simply does not come easy to large swaths of the population, one has to respect that fact and don't assume we're all neurologically wired to talk to machines all day. Also, people might well be better suited to very different activities. Would we be richer, as a society, if Van Gogh had decided to drop this "paintings" business and start a boring but profitable civil-servant career instead? Last but not least, the value of each individual programmer, in a capitalistic society, inevitably decreases as the labor pool increases, with obvious consequences in the long run for the profitability of the profession. Car mechanics used to be respected and expensive professionals too.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Do you have a better idea for how society should determine where to direct society’s resources other than using prices? Prices and movements in prices indicate where supply is needed (or not needed). I have not yet seen a better mechanism.
    - vlovich123 5y ago
      It’s funny because the truly wealthy and powerful seem to rely more on favors and intangible relationships, not by putting a price tag on things. Indeed, we see money as a corrupting influence
    - DubiousPusher 5y ago
      So you are satisfied with a world wherein if the price the market puts on your labor is too low to ensure your survival, you are chaff?
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        That is not what I wrote. I asked what the better alternative is. Simply complaining makes for uninteresting conversation. I am not opposed to a universal basic income, given that all other subsidies are ceased. How would society increase the number of surgeons, who require a decade of intense study and risk to become one? How would society incentivize people to live 2 hours from the nearest hospital in order to farm the land and create food for the country? What would society have to do to incentivize people to work jobs where they have to commute somewhere to work, or many places for work, rather than work from their own home?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - snerbles 5y ago
    It's entirely driven by spite and class warfare. Elite politicians and journalists were the first to happily bark "learn to code" at freshly-unemployed blue collar workers with all of the apparent condescension you described. Others flinging the phrase back at later-unemployed journalists are merely returning proverbial fire, with subsequent Twitter bans meted out by those that can't take what they dish out.
at_a_remove 5y ago
"Learn To Code" was aimed at journalists after they published some derisive business at blue-collar workers, that laid off coal miners should "learn to code." Having it thrown back in their face is what irritates them.

tablespoon 5y ago

> Also, hearing "learn to code" on Twitter pissed them off. IIRC, the phrase "learn to code" was either coined or quickly co-opted by right-wing trolls to use to taunt journalists and others.

baash05 5y ago
Not really right wing trolls. It was in response to them telling other the same thing. It was never pointed at the blue collar people who lost their jobs, but instead pointed at elite people who had no compassion for those that had the world they grew up working in, being ripped from them. Oddly I see this as a "for the worker" phrase. Don't tell my 60 year old welder dad that just lost his 40 year job, that he should learn to code, and get a better job. Empathise with him, and come up with real plans. It was used to taunt journalists, and others who spouted the platitude.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Not really right wing trolls. It was right wing trolls: /pol/ was involved [1]. > It was in response to them telling other the same thing. It was never pointed at the blue collar people who lost their jobs, but instead pointed at elite people who had no compassion for those that had the world they grew up working in, being ripped from them.... > It was used to taunt journalists, and others who spouted the platitude. No it wasn't. It was used to taunt journalists generally [1]. Your justification, frankly, is just bullshit meant to help justify acting like an asshole. The most charitable interpretation requires the taunters relying on sloppy stereotypes akin to someone who generalizes that all black people are criminals based on seeing one black guy mug someone. Except in this case, the taunters didn't even see someone get mugged, they just misinterpreted someone loaning someone some money. Look at the origin timeline: it was Mark Zuckerberg and Michael Bloomberg who were being condescending and aloof, and the journalists where just investigated the questions that condescension raised (e.g. Mike Bloomberg says they're not capable, but he's wrong). That was confirmed to me the last time someone tried to justify this taunting, and the only "example" they could provide of the supposed condescension of journalists was a sympathetic profile of some coal miners who did, in fact, learn to code, which the taunter-apologist thoroughly misinterpreted through their bias. [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code