4 ms·

Every "air conditioner" is a heat pump, the only newish development for the US is for reversible ones to become more common that can pump the heat in both direc

Every "air conditioner" is a heat pump, the only newish development for the US is for reversible ones to become more common that can pump the heat in both directions. I don't understand why there's been so much brouhaha over heat pumps as of late, it's nothing new.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Because air source heat pumps are the only efficient way to electrify HVAC besides heat pump boilers. Climate change mitigations (in this case, gas->electric) and all that jazz.
orzig 5y ago
Having just bought one, I think they have recently gotten a lot more efficient, and/or cheaper. Several installers couldn’t name any options, but the more savvy ones were talking about all the new manufacturers in the game
gwbas1c 5y ago
They used to work poorly in colder climates like the northeastern US. Newer models are better able to handle sub-freezing temperatures.
brightball 5y ago
The integrated systems with a computer controlled thermostat and multi speed fans have tremendously helped.
throw0101a 5y ago
> I don't understand why there's been so much brouhaha over heat pumps as of late, it's nothing new. It is something new for the mainstream American consumer.
- pengaru 5y ago
  But that's simply not true, air conditioning has been ubiquitous in the US for decades. They just didn't call it a heat pump, but it's a heat pump. This is just marketing bullshit AFAICT.
  - ajuc 5y ago
    Every LED is a solar cell. Every electric engine is a generator. Every speaker is a microphone. Means nothing, because they suck in these unintended applications unless they were specifically designed for them. What changed recently is - heat pumps and solar panels got cheap/good enough to be viable alternative for heating houses in most climates.
    - drewcoo 5y ago
      Every analogy is lossy but they can be useful. You have used several analogous relations to show a larger pattern. You've extracted the utility and distilled it into its essence. It's really hard to stretch what you wrote too far until it breaks, like most standalone analogies. Love it! (Commenting here in the hope that more people will adopt the tactic.)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    I would say that being able to run in reverse is a material change.
- c_o_n_v_e_x 5y ago
  Ex-HVAC tech here. Although not commonly seen, heat pumps were around on the US gulf coast back in the late 90's / early 2000's. Depending on what region/climate you're in, they're more popular. Industry vernacular: Air conditioner / air con: Unidirectional. Cools home. air cooled. Furnace or heater: Separate unit to provide heat in home. Furnace is gas, heater is electric. Heat pump: Bidirectional. Can heat or cool home. air cooled. Also, can come with "emergency heat" electric heaters. Ground source or geothermal heat pump: Bidirectional. can heat or cool home. water cooled. Swamp cooler: evaporative cooler.
  - lsaferite 5y ago
    I've lived in Florida most of my life. As far back as I can remember we had (bi-directional) heat pumps. This is at least back in the mid 80s.
ajuc 5y ago
1. Heat pumps make it possible to use renewables for heating your house. 2. People in climate where heating dominates cooling for energy use don't usually have AC. 3. As heat pumps (and solar panels) get popular - prices of both fall to the point where it's worth it.
- pengaru 5y ago
  So "heat pump" is being used by the industry to ambiguously describe reversible heat pumps that can do both heating and cooling? It's an incredibly misleading terminology to use. I have a neighbor who last year replaced their small window AC unit in their off-grid desert cabin with what they described as a "heat pump" window unit after being convinced it was a more energy efficient solution for cooling their cabin with their limited solar array. Unsurprisingly it made zero difference because they replaced an existing heat pump with basically the same thing under a different name. Waste of money, not the brightest individual, but the marketing push of new whiz-bang efficient heat pumps falling from the heavens is strong.
  - hedora 5y ago
    Shouldn't it save money in the winter (assuming it gets cold in the winter moving forward)?
    - pengaru 5y ago
      Winter isn't their problem, their AC unit was drawing too much power in the summer for their solar to keep up, it drained their batteries. The new one did the same thing unsurprisingly.
      - lsaferite 5y ago
        Their problem is probably more about insulation and air infiltration. With a well insulated and mostly air-tight envelope you can get away with much less heating/cooling capacity.
  - ajuc 5y ago
hedora 5y ago
I think it's all about constant factors. Propane (as of 2019, around here) crossed the point where it was the same cost as resistive heating, and natural gas (pre ukraine crisis) was something like half that price. The coefficient of power of a decent heat pump is much higher than two, so the dollar cost of powering a heat pump is much lower than that of natural gas, down to some crazy temperature, like -15F. Also air source heat pumps that out perform ground source pumps have recently become commonplace, and mini-splits make for easy retrofits in response to climate change.
- fy20 5y ago
  I'd you combine a heat pump with solar it makes even more sense. I've been building a house in Northern Europe (-25C / -15F in winter) and in 2019 calculated how much it would be to heat with a) natural gas, b) air source heat pump or c) air source heat pump and solar PV. The (b) heat pump option is more expensive up front, but over the course of 10 years (minimum expected life of the heat pump) worked out the same as (a) natural gas, and has the added benefit of being able to cool the house in the summer. Once you take into account solar (which was calculated to pay itself off after 6 years) it makes no financial sense to choose natural gas. I made these calculations in 2019 and used a rather optimistic 2.5% inflation rate for energy prices, so if you do that again today it's even more in favour of the heat pump and solar. (I am aware that there are gas absorption heat pumps, but there are very few manufacturers right now, and the ones I found available here were 2-3x the price of an electric unit)

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Because air source heat pumps are the only efficient way to electrify HVAC besides heat pump boilers. Climate change mitigations (in this case, gas->electric) and all that jazz.

orzig 5y ago

Having just bought one, I think they have recently gotten a lot more efficient, and/or cheaper. Several installers couldn’t name any options, but the more savvy ones were talking about all the new manufacturers in the game

gwbas1c 5y ago

They used to work poorly in colder climates like the northeastern US. Newer models are better able to handle sub-freezing temperatures.

brightball 5y ago

The integrated systems with a computer controlled thermostat and multi speed fans have tremendously helped.

throw0101a 5y ago

> I don't understand why there's been so much brouhaha over heat pumps as of late, it's nothing new. It is something new for the mainstream American consumer.

pengaru 5y ago
But that's simply not true, air conditioning has been ubiquitous in the US for decades. They just didn't call it a heat pump, but it's a heat pump. This is just marketing bullshit AFAICT.
- ajuc 5y ago
  Every LED is a solar cell. Every electric engine is a generator. Every speaker is a microphone. Means nothing, because they suck in these unintended applications unless they were specifically designed for them. What changed recently is - heat pumps and solar panels got cheap/good enough to be viable alternative for heating houses in most climates.
  - drewcoo 5y ago
    Every analogy is lossy but they can be useful. You have used several analogous relations to show a larger pattern. You've extracted the utility and distilled it into its essence. It's really hard to stretch what you wrote too far until it breaks, like most standalone analogies. Love it! (Commenting here in the hope that more people will adopt the tactic.)
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  I would say that being able to run in reverse is a material change.
c_o_n_v_e_x 5y ago
Ex-HVAC tech here. Although not commonly seen, heat pumps were around on the US gulf coast back in the late 90's / early 2000's. Depending on what region/climate you're in, they're more popular. Industry vernacular: Air conditioner / air con: Unidirectional. Cools home. air cooled. Furnace or heater: Separate unit to provide heat in home. Furnace is gas, heater is electric. Heat pump: Bidirectional. Can heat or cool home. air cooled. Also, can come with "emergency heat" electric heaters. Ground source or geothermal heat pump: Bidirectional. can heat or cool home. water cooled. Swamp cooler: evaporative cooler.
- lsaferite 5y ago
  I've lived in Florida most of my life. As far back as I can remember we had (bi-directional) heat pumps. This is at least back in the mid 80s.

ajuc 5y ago

1. Heat pumps make it possible to use renewables for heating your house. 2. People in climate where heating dominates cooling for energy use don't usually have AC. 3. As heat pumps (and solar panels) get popular - prices of both fall to the point where it's worth it.

pengaru 5y ago
So "heat pump" is being used by the industry to ambiguously describe reversible heat pumps that can do both heating and cooling? It's an incredibly misleading terminology to use. I have a neighbor who last year replaced their small window AC unit in their off-grid desert cabin with what they described as a "heat pump" window unit after being convinced it was a more energy efficient solution for cooling their cabin with their limited solar array. Unsurprisingly it made zero difference because they replaced an existing heat pump with basically the same thing under a different name. Waste of money, not the brightest individual, but the marketing push of new whiz-bang efficient heat pumps falling from the heavens is strong.
- hedora 5y ago
  Shouldn't it save money in the winter (assuming it gets cold in the winter moving forward)?
  - pengaru 5y ago
    Winter isn't their problem, their AC unit was drawing too much power in the summer for their solar to keep up, it drained their batteries. The new one did the same thing unsurprisingly.
    - lsaferite 5y ago
      Their problem is probably more about insulation and air infiltration. With a well insulated and mostly air-tight envelope you can get away with much less heating/cooling capacity.
- ajuc 5y ago

hedora 5y ago

I think it's all about constant factors. Propane (as of 2019, around here) crossed the point where it was the same cost as resistive heating, and natural gas (pre ukraine crisis) was something like half that price. The coefficient of power of a decent heat pump is much higher than two, so the dollar cost of powering a heat pump is much lower than that of natural gas, down to some crazy temperature, like -15F. Also air source heat pumps that out perform ground source pumps have recently become commonplace, and mini-splits make for easy retrofits in response to climate change.

fy20 5y ago
I'd you combine a heat pump with solar it makes even more sense. I've been building a house in Northern Europe (-25C / -15F in winter) and in 2019 calculated how much it would be to heat with a) natural gas, b) air source heat pump or c) air source heat pump and solar PV. The (b) heat pump option is more expensive up front, but over the course of 10 years (minimum expected life of the heat pump) worked out the same as (a) natural gas, and has the added benefit of being able to cool the house in the summer. Once you take into account solar (which was calculated to pay itself off after 6 years) it makes no financial sense to choose natural gas. I made these calculations in 2019 and used a rather optimistic 2.5% inflation rate for energy prices, so if you do that again today it's even more in favour of the heat pump and solar. (I am aware that there are gas absorption heat pumps, but there are very few manufacturers right now, and the ones I found available here were 2-3x the price of an electric unit)