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SESTA and FOSTA are certainly DC's doing, but I think it's fair to say there is a serious aversion to sexuality and eroticism among incumbent platforms, that di

SESTA and FOSTA are certainly DC's doing, but I think it's fair to say there is a serious aversion to sexuality and eroticism among incumbent platforms, that did not require any prodding from US lawmakers. For example, AFAIK, Instagram has never allowed "adult" content, since long before FOSTA; Steam has never allowed "pornography" on its platform, resulting in hundreds of games requiring patches [1] to play in the form the publisher intended. Eroticism being a core component of art going all the way back to literal cave paintings, I am sometimes frustrated at the prudishness of the platforms we use in the contemporary age. [1] https://store.steampowered.com/curator/34059662-Uncensor-Patch/ https://store.steampowered.com/curator/34059662-Uncensor-Pat...

nerdponx 5y ago
This is a classic case of an industry attempting to self-regulate in order to avoid legal regulation, with teeth. Even inconsistently-applied loose rules are good enough to keep the powerful Christian lobbyist pitchforks at bay.
- zeruch 5y ago
  This is probably the most pithy distillation of what the actual cause is.
CPLX 5y ago
I mean isn’t this a function of all this stuff being ad supported? Brands don’t want ads next to porn. That seems like the core of the issue here.
- LewisVerstappen 5y ago
  Steam isn't ad supported.
  - echelon 5y ago
    It's Visa supported, and Visa doesn't want sex. There are actually strong, non-"puritanical" reasons for this. An oft-cited anecdote is the spouse or parent that finds mysterious porn charges on the credit card. Sex-related services carry an extremely high rate of charge backs. The transaction risks are much, much higher than other categories of goods and services. So while Visa could simply charge more, there are numerous other headwinds that make this tricky. Political will, payments risks, brand risk, and deep rooted family/social stigmas that fuel the rest. They kind of all have to be dealt with at once for this to start making economic and business sense. For proponents, it's going to take generational change to shake all of these network effects out. The first step of which is consumers (Gen Z?) publicly admitting that they see no harm in sex-related commerce and to begin showing this in their purchasing behaviors. John Oliver recently covered this as it relates to sex work. Stigmas and dispositions are changing, but it's slow. A lot of signalling has to happen to a lot of people.
    - KennyBlanken 5y ago
      None of this explains why the banking industry blacklists porn stars from having checking accounts, nor why they allow other high-risk industries wholesale access...the gym industry, for example, is incredibly fraudulent and yet the banking industry has no problem letting them use ECH, a system so permissive it's a fraudster's wet dream....or why the banking industry has done nothing to self-regulate payday lenders.
      - spindle 5y ago
        Very good comparisons IMO.
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
      I wonder how much of it is outrage-by-proxy, where you don't have a problem with it, but fear that others will.
    - newbamboo 5y ago
      “A lot of signalling has to happen to a lot of people.” More signaling makes all signals weaker until everything is noise. Probably not the desired outcome.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    ...steam is covered in ads, even opening them in a separate window when you launch the client. They're only for stuff sold on steam, and publishers (supposedly) can't buy ad space, but they're ads nonetheless.
    - KyeRussell 5y ago
      This advertising obviously does not have the attributes that the conversation is referring to, namely that a third party is buying the space.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
It has nothing to with "DC" (numerous anti-porn laws have been struck down by courts) and everything to do with the banking industry's moral codes, which is where the Christian Right shifted their moral crusade to after losing numerous legal challenges. That's why you see platforms like Patreon crack down on adult content. The banking industry notices, the payment processors and merchant banks sit up and threaten to close the service's accounts, and the service instead capitulates and cranks up their rules around adult content. They'll bray about fraud rates being high for adult content, but if high fraud rates were a concern, you'd think they wouldn't give the gym industry (for example) free license in credit card processing and ECH transfers...they're prolific scam artists. Ditto for all the as-seen-on-tv crap with outrageous shipping and "handling" fees and so on. If the banking industry figures out that you're an adult media actor, you stand a good chance of getting banned from the entire system. What possible argument for fraud is there in that case? None. "Fraud" is just a cover for Christian moral code enforcement. Edit: okay, maybe it's not the Christian Right influencing US banks rejecting porn stars for accounts for "moral" reasons. Must be the sentient Big Mouth Billy Bass units.
- colpabar 5y ago
  I agree that it's the banks but do you have any evidence to support your claims that it's the christian right?
  - rpdillon 5y ago
    This entry[0] has useful background. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_on_Sexual_Exploitation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_on_Sexual_Ex...
- mildmotive 5y ago
  It’s the liberal that’s holding the power here, not the Christian that is fighting an uphill battle to preserve their religious lifestyle, and the right to parent their own children how they want. It’s clear for all that opening the floodgates of porn into social media and platforms that both adults and _children_ use will cause this particular category of content to dominate the entire space. It’ll also lock out any children from most social media whose parents refuse (and rightfully so) to let them see porn. Not that this effort will always be successful, because children who don’t know any better will cave in to peer pressure from friends. This dystopia where what’s essentially filmed prostitution finds its way into almost all spaces in society, including children’s lives, is what the very powerful liberal wants. Shouldn’t you be more concerned about the increase in women and girls forced to sell their dignity to survive? Is the suffering of people not more important to you than your cummies?
Ekaros 5y ago
I think Steam has pretty much given up on not allowing porn... Outside certain cases.
- int_19h 5y ago
  When browsing Steam VR titles, it feels like half of that is interactive porn.
okasaki 5y ago
Steam does allow porn games now, though you have to log in and change some settings to see it.
- oneoff786 5y ago
  And if you do, it’s ridiculously over saturated with them
gumby 5y ago
Steam is in Washington, not the Valley or SF.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
> Steam has never allowed "pornography" on its platform The amount of pure porn games that clutters some lists makes me doubt this very much.
nhinck2 5y ago
Iirc steam only bans porn games with real people due to legislation regarding keeping track of the actors in the material. It's been a long time since they blocked any other legal porn.
zeruch 5y ago
It didn't "require prodding" because it was assumed from the get go that there was more money (and/or less scrutiny) to be made 'playing it safe' than much else.

nerdponx 5y ago

This is a classic case of an industry attempting to self-regulate in order to avoid legal regulation, with teeth. Even inconsistently-applied loose rules are good enough to keep the powerful Christian lobbyist pitchforks at bay.

zeruch 5y ago
This is probably the most pithy distillation of what the actual cause is.

CPLX 5y ago

I mean isn’t this a function of all this stuff being ad supported? Brands don’t want ads next to porn. That seems like the core of the issue here.

LewisVerstappen 5y ago
Steam isn't ad supported.
- echelon 5y ago
  It's Visa supported, and Visa doesn't want sex. There are actually strong, non-"puritanical" reasons for this. An oft-cited anecdote is the spouse or parent that finds mysterious porn charges on the credit card. Sex-related services carry an extremely high rate of charge backs. The transaction risks are much, much higher than other categories of goods and services. So while Visa could simply charge more, there are numerous other headwinds that make this tricky. Political will, payments risks, brand risk, and deep rooted family/social stigmas that fuel the rest. They kind of all have to be dealt with at once for this to start making economic and business sense. For proponents, it's going to take generational change to shake all of these network effects out. The first step of which is consumers (Gen Z?) publicly admitting that they see no harm in sex-related commerce and to begin showing this in their purchasing behaviors. John Oliver recently covered this as it relates to sex work. Stigmas and dispositions are changing, but it's slow. A lot of signalling has to happen to a lot of people.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    None of this explains why the banking industry blacklists porn stars from having checking accounts, nor why they allow other high-risk industries wholesale access...the gym industry, for example, is incredibly fraudulent and yet the banking industry has no problem letting them use ECH, a system so permissive it's a fraudster's wet dream....or why the banking industry has done nothing to self-regulate payday lenders.
    - spindle 5y ago
      Very good comparisons IMO.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
    I wonder how much of it is outrage-by-proxy, where you don't have a problem with it, but fear that others will.
  - newbamboo 5y ago
    “A lot of signalling has to happen to a lot of people.” More signaling makes all signals weaker until everything is noise. Probably not the desired outcome.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  ...steam is covered in ads, even opening them in a separate window when you launch the client. They're only for stuff sold on steam, and publishers (supposedly) can't buy ad space, but they're ads nonetheless.
  - KyeRussell 5y ago
    This advertising obviously does not have the attributes that the conversation is referring to, namely that a third party is buying the space.

KennyBlanken 5y ago

It has nothing to with "DC" (numerous anti-porn laws have been struck down by courts) and everything to do with the banking industry's moral codes, which is where the Christian Right shifted their moral crusade to after losing numerous legal challenges. That's why you see platforms like Patreon crack down on adult content. The banking industry notices, the payment processors and merchant banks sit up and threaten to close the service's accounts, and the service instead capitulates and cranks up their rules around adult content. They'll bray about fraud rates being high for adult content, but if high fraud rates were a concern, you'd think they wouldn't give the gym industry (for example) free license in credit card processing and ECH transfers...they're prolific scam artists. Ditto for all the as-seen-on-tv crap with outrageous shipping and "handling" fees and so on. If the banking industry figures out that you're an adult media actor, you stand a good chance of getting banned from the entire system. What possible argument for fraud is there in that case? None. "Fraud" is just a cover for Christian moral code enforcement. Edit: okay, maybe it's not the Christian Right influencing US banks rejecting porn stars for accounts for "moral" reasons. Must be the sentient Big Mouth Billy Bass units.

colpabar 5y ago
I agree that it's the banks but do you have any evidence to support your claims that it's the christian right?
- rpdillon 5y ago
  This entry[0] has useful background. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_on_Sexual_Exploitation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_on_Sexual_Ex...
mildmotive 5y ago
It’s the liberal that’s holding the power here, not the Christian that is fighting an uphill battle to preserve their religious lifestyle, and the right to parent their own children how they want. It’s clear for all that opening the floodgates of porn into social media and platforms that both adults and _children_ use will cause this particular category of content to dominate the entire space. It’ll also lock out any children from most social media whose parents refuse (and rightfully so) to let them see porn. Not that this effort will always be successful, because children who don’t know any better will cave in to peer pressure from friends. This dystopia where what’s essentially filmed prostitution finds its way into almost all spaces in society, including children’s lives, is what the very powerful liberal wants. Shouldn’t you be more concerned about the increase in women and girls forced to sell their dignity to survive? Is the suffering of people not more important to you than your cummies?

Ekaros 5y ago

I think Steam has pretty much given up on not allowing porn... Outside certain cases.

int_19h 5y ago
When browsing Steam VR titles, it feels like half of that is interactive porn.

okasaki 5y ago

Steam does allow porn games now, though you have to log in and change some settings to see it.

oneoff786 5y ago
And if you do, it’s ridiculously over saturated with them

gumby 5y ago

Steam is in Washington, not the Valley or SF.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

> Steam has never allowed "pornography" on its platform The amount of pure porn games that clutters some lists makes me doubt this very much.

nhinck2 5y ago

Iirc steam only bans porn games with real people due to legislation regarding keeping track of the actors in the material. It's been a long time since they blocked any other legal porn.

zeruch 5y ago

It didn't "require prodding" because it was assumed from the get go that there was more money (and/or less scrutiny) to be made 'playing it safe' than much else.