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Is it really 13%, or... A. The city has incentive to hide the actual numbers[1], and B. Most business owners don't bother anymore with reporting, because what'

Is it really 13%, or... A. The city has incentive to hide the actual numbers[1], and B. Most business owners don't bother anymore with reporting, because what's the point? I'd say it's probably a combination of the above. Edit: [1]Because it is an election year. High crime looks bad.

ceejayoz 5y ago
> The city has incentive to hide the actual numbers... ... and cops have an incentive to overstate them.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Not really - as the article says, the cops are discouraged and it's not like there's a bounty per arrest. Overstating the numbers is a waste of time not accomplishing anything if true.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Cops outright make shit up to win political points. For example: https://www.businessinsider.com/nypds-shake-shack-hoax-stop-taking-police-word-2020-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/nypds-shake-shack-hoax-stop-...
    - gjsman-1000 5y ago
      So some cops lied in New York about something unrelated... so they must be lying about well-documented phenomena in Los Angeles over an entirely different issue. Not only that, but they must be somehow incentivized to do so. I don't find that argument convincing.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        Oh, LA's cops have bigger issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs There's a grim and extensive investigation at https://knock-la.com/tradition-of-violence-lasd-gang-history/ https://knock-la.com/tradition-of-violence-lasd-gang-history... of this.
    - marcinzm 5y ago
      Property crimes generally aren't reported by the police so it's not something the police could fudge. Now arrest rates they may lie about (read: arrest innocent people) to meet quotas.
- colpabar 5y ago
  Do they? More crimes means a lower solved crime rate, which looks reflects poorly on the city's leadership.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Police unions are frequently feuding with city leadership. As an example, the NYPD doxxed DiBlasio's daughter in revenge for his position on the George Floyd murder: https://www.newsweek.com/nypd-sergeants-benevolent-association-union-tweet-deleted-mayor-bill-de-blasio-daughter-1507750 https://www.newsweek.com/nypd-sergeants-benevolent-associati... Overstating/cherrypicking crimes is a frequently utilized PR tactic to fight attempts at police reform, budget cuts, etc.
    - Nomentatus 5y ago
      But the police in NYC used lots of spotsearches to boost both the crime rate (they discovered and so "solved" the crime at the same time) AND their crimes solved rate simultaneously. (Until the courts stopped them.) Only if both those stats go up together are the police incentivized to boost the crime rate.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        That's why you pick specific stats that support your point, while pretending the others don't exist. Any time you see an oddly specific stat, you should question it a little. For example: https://twitter.com/dceiver/status/1493643563892150278 https://twitter.com/dceiver/status/1493643563892150278 "Shooting incidents are up 500% in an East Harlem precinct compared with last year" winds up describing going from one to six.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
kklimonda 5y ago
Aren't most stores insured, and if so wouldn't this data be available due to insurance claims?
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Businesses don't file insurance claims when the losses are too small to justify paying the insurance premium, plus taking the time to file a police report and insurance report. Also, the losses are so frequent that they add up quickly - and the amount of effort required to file reports and claims for all of them is not economically viable.

ceejayoz 5y ago

> The city has incentive to hide the actual numbers... ... and cops have an incentive to overstate them.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Not really - as the article says, the cops are discouraged and it's not like there's a bounty per arrest. Overstating the numbers is a waste of time not accomplishing anything if true.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Cops outright make shit up to win political points. For example: https://www.businessinsider.com/nypds-shake-shack-hoax-stop-taking-police-word-2020-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/nypds-shake-shack-hoax-stop-...
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    So some cops lied in New York about something unrelated... so they must be lying about well-documented phenomena in Los Angeles over an entirely different issue. Not only that, but they must be somehow incentivized to do so. I don't find that argument convincing.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Oh, LA's cops have bigger issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs There's a grim and extensive investigation at https://knock-la.com/tradition-of-violence-lasd-gang-history/ https://knock-la.com/tradition-of-violence-lasd-gang-history... of this.
  - marcinzm 5y ago
    Property crimes generally aren't reported by the police so it's not something the police could fudge. Now arrest rates they may lie about (read: arrest innocent people) to meet quotas.
colpabar 5y ago
Do they? More crimes means a lower solved crime rate, which looks reflects poorly on the city's leadership.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Police unions are frequently feuding with city leadership. As an example, the NYPD doxxed DiBlasio's daughter in revenge for his position on the George Floyd murder: https://www.newsweek.com/nypd-sergeants-benevolent-association-union-tweet-deleted-mayor-bill-de-blasio-daughter-1507750 https://www.newsweek.com/nypd-sergeants-benevolent-associati... Overstating/cherrypicking crimes is a frequently utilized PR tactic to fight attempts at police reform, budget cuts, etc.
  - Nomentatus 5y ago
    But the police in NYC used lots of spotsearches to boost both the crime rate (they discovered and so "solved" the crime at the same time) AND their crimes solved rate simultaneously. (Until the courts stopped them.) Only if both those stats go up together are the police incentivized to boost the crime rate.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      That's why you pick specific stats that support your point, while pretending the others don't exist. Any time you see an oddly specific stat, you should question it a little. For example: https://twitter.com/dceiver/status/1493643563892150278 https://twitter.com/dceiver/status/1493643563892150278 "Shooting incidents are up 500% in an East Harlem precinct compared with last year" winds up describing going from one to six.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

kklimonda 5y ago

Aren't most stores insured, and if so wouldn't this data be available due to insurance claims?

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Businesses don't file insurance claims when the losses are too small to justify paying the insurance premium, plus taking the time to file a police report and insurance report. Also, the losses are so frequent that they add up quickly - and the amount of effort required to file reports and claims for all of them is not economically viable.