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I had similar thoughts on Amazons hiring process. They can shove their "leadership principles". I know they're going to churn through all potential applicants s

I had similar thoughts on Amazons hiring process. They can shove their "leadership principles". I know they're going to churn through all potential applicants someday and have to start acting like real people.

kevinsundar 5y ago
IDK maybe I've drank the cool aid too long but the leadership principles are actually what I'd want in a teammate.
- jackblemming 5y ago
  There is nothing wrong with having principles like "Deliver Results" or "Learn and Be Curious". What's weird is making interview candidates memorize these and come up with a canned performative story for each one.
  - etblg 5y ago
    I recently did their final round of coding interviews plus leadership principles. It's not a bad idea in theory, but the way they go about it makes it very clear that you're just supplying input to an algorithm where the output is hire or no-hire, and the person asking the question only cares about taking the answer and fitting it in to a nice text box on their screen to send to HR. I realized pretty quickly with their followup questions that there was no point in answering truthfully with your real reasoning and thought process. I think you're much better off making up a story that perfectly covers the principle they're asking about, so they can take it and just put it down directly on their form. It felt like they had leetcodified non-coding interview questions.
- heartofadog 5y ago
  Only problem is - the Amazon process doesn't filter for your belief in, or ability to, you know, actually abide by those principles. But simply your willingness to memorize and recite them.
  - marcinzm 5y ago
    >But simply your willingness to memorize and recite them. And lie (ie: come up with fake stories to highlight how you followed the principles in the past). A great trait to look for in a future teammate.
- pinewurst 5y ago
  Every single one, as I understand from Amazon people I’ve met, can be interpreted as a weapon against someone to justify a PIP/termination.
- xcambar 5y ago
  I recently interviewed at Amazon, and failed. It was quite memorable in a bad way, it felt very unwelcoming and mechanical. I even wondered during the interview if I was actually talking to a human being or to a very elaborate AI + deep fake. Nonetheless, their leadership principles are bookmarked for later reuse. They're very good general purpose guidance.
  - kybernetikos 5y ago
    > I was actually talking to a human being or to a very elaborate AI + deep fake I've also had similar experiences talking to people at Amazon. I can associate most of the big tech companies with various negative traits (and some positive ones too), but Amazon is the only one where a significant number of the people seemed to be inhabitants of the uncanny valley. One ex-amazonian I know gradually seemed to 'de-program' over about 3 years after he left. Not being terribly familiar with the internal culture, I'm not sure what causes it, but perhaps it's what naturally happens if you're the kind of person to succeed at a company that wishes that humans were as predictable as automated processes.

kevinsundar 5y ago

IDK maybe I've drank the cool aid too long but the leadership principles are actually what I'd want in a teammate.

jackblemming 5y ago
There is nothing wrong with having principles like "Deliver Results" or "Learn and Be Curious". What's weird is making interview candidates memorize these and come up with a canned performative story for each one.
- etblg 5y ago
  I recently did their final round of coding interviews plus leadership principles. It's not a bad idea in theory, but the way they go about it makes it very clear that you're just supplying input to an algorithm where the output is hire or no-hire, and the person asking the question only cares about taking the answer and fitting it in to a nice text box on their screen to send to HR. I realized pretty quickly with their followup questions that there was no point in answering truthfully with your real reasoning and thought process. I think you're much better off making up a story that perfectly covers the principle they're asking about, so they can take it and just put it down directly on their form. It felt like they had leetcodified non-coding interview questions.
heartofadog 5y ago
Only problem is - the Amazon process doesn't filter for your belief in, or ability to, you know, actually abide by those principles. But simply your willingness to memorize and recite them.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  >But simply your willingness to memorize and recite them. And lie (ie: come up with fake stories to highlight how you followed the principles in the past). A great trait to look for in a future teammate.
pinewurst 5y ago
Every single one, as I understand from Amazon people I’ve met, can be interpreted as a weapon against someone to justify a PIP/termination.
xcambar 5y ago
I recently interviewed at Amazon, and failed. It was quite memorable in a bad way, it felt very unwelcoming and mechanical. I even wondered during the interview if I was actually talking to a human being or to a very elaborate AI + deep fake. Nonetheless, their leadership principles are bookmarked for later reuse. They're very good general purpose guidance.
- kybernetikos 5y ago
  > I was actually talking to a human being or to a very elaborate AI + deep fake I've also had similar experiences talking to people at Amazon. I can associate most of the big tech companies with various negative traits (and some positive ones too), but Amazon is the only one where a significant number of the people seemed to be inhabitants of the uncanny valley. One ex-amazonian I know gradually seemed to 'de-program' over about 3 years after he left. Not being terribly familiar with the internal culture, I'm not sure what causes it, but perhaps it's what naturally happens if you're the kind of person to succeed at a company that wishes that humans were as predictable as automated processes.