> I have to point out that this is also a Kremlin talking point Sigh. Putin has nukes. Comparing him to say, Hitler - and wondering "what if back then we had

> I have to point out that this is also a Kremlin talking point Sigh. Putin has nukes. Comparing him to say, Hitler - and wondering "what if back then we had acted earlier" - ignores this very important point. The present calculation is wildly different. Look. I don't want to appease Putin. He is a bad guy. But he has nukes. Every possible outcome is far from optimal. If that position happens to intersect with "Russian propaganda", so be it. > he won't stop at Ukraine Putin will not invade an actual NATO country. I have to believe that anyone arguing otherwise is just out of their mind. Maybe I'm being naive, but I really just don't see it happening. > Obviously you read Greenwald, but are you also consuming the American conservative media I'm a paying subscriber to the NYT and that's where I get most of my facts and "real news." Yes, I roll my eyes at the opinion section and at the typical NYT commenter, but I consider their regular reporting to be about as close to the facts as you can get. However, yannow, the NYT was also telling us Iraq had WMD, so I don't just knee-jerk believe everything they publish. I don't watch TV. When I go home and they're watching Fox News, I'm rolling my eyes there too. If anything, I'm a contrarian because we've been burned so many times when putting blind trust in the media. > what I understand from your comments to me, is that he's rationally attacking Ukraine for legitimate reasons that will be assuaged by ceding the country to him I would prefer Putin to not attack Ukraine. That said, there is a reason why Ukraine isn't in NATO - because it is not defendable. Why? Because Russia has nukes. That's how I read this. Whether Putin is acting rationally or not is irrelevant. War drums are being beat but this time there are thousands of nukes pointed at us. What would you have us do? EDIT: > you're tacitly making a judgement about Putin's psyche; you believe that if he gets Ukraine he would stop invading other countries. Because why wouldn't he, he's not crazy, right? Or maybe he is and he won't stop at Ukraine. You're also doing the same thing - assuming that Putin is insane enough to invade NATO but also not insane enough to launch a nuke. Which seems far less likely than Putin being "insane" enough to take Ukraine and stop once he hits NATO.