4 ms·

I've heard some don't even consider these parts Europe. Maybe don't think about our corner at all, or not in this context. The ottomans really did a number on u

I've heard some don't even consider these parts Europe. Maybe don't think about our corner at all, or not in this context. The ottomans really did a number on us. 400-500 years of nothing while the rest of the continent was booming, more or less

ethbr0 5y ago
As someone from across the pond, is the territory of the former Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth not considered Eastern Europe? It seems to have competed well from 1385 - 1772, until the forced partitioning by surrounding states.
- sofixa 5y ago
  Yes, it is Eastern Europe, but was already in a steady decline well before the partitions.
  - _0ffh 5y ago
    It's "eastern" only insofar as it ended up on the eastern side of the iron curtain. Geographically, Poland is very much a central European country.
hld 5y ago
I'd say it is more complex than this. I can recommend the book written by Marie-Janin Calic [0] which goes over the complicated history of Yugoslavia and makes it a bit clearer why the Balkans is the way it is these days. But regarding your first sentence: definitely. If you listen closely you will often notice how Europeans mentally exclude the Balkans from whatever it is they are talking about. I think this sentiment has been especially felt when the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize given that apparently there have been no wars in Europe after WWII. [0] https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/24993 https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/24993
haunter 5y ago
>I've heard some don't even consider these parts Europe. Absolutely. I'm from East Europe and you can really feel and notice that when the European Union address certain topics. This is also the struggle of the former Eastern Bloc countries. Rejected by the west but culturally always closer to them (especially Germany and France) not to the slavic Russia.
- thriftwy 5y ago
  This is a funny claim considering that Russia itself is culturally closer in many areas to France and Germany and not the rest of slavic East Europe. Tolstoi and Chaikovskiy have very little to do with Eastern European/slavic culture and clearly embrace Western European tradition.
- ryan93 5y ago
  Not really rejected by the west. They could have taken marshall plan money if stalin didnt forbid it.
  - panick21_ 5y ago
    The Marshall plan, no matter how much the US hypes it, is not a magical get rich pill. And the Marshall plan is certainty not why Western Europe is rich today. In fact, places that have received less Marshall Plan money often did better then does that did. I understand in the US the Marshall Plan is often taught as this amazing act that prevented WW3 but that a lot of propaganda. To to say it was bad, but whenever I hear people talk about the Marshall Plan it sounds like they are talking about the second coming of Christ.
    - zdragnar 5y ago
      The resulting policies from the league of nations after WW1 directly contributed to the rise of Germany as the main antagonist of the European theater of WW2. In that context, the Marshall Plan was a complete reversal of policy, and saw the rise of allies out of the ashes. It should be small wonder, then, that the Marshall Plan gets the credit for averting future war. Certainly it was not panacea, but that is no reason to ignore the effect entirely.

ethbr0 5y ago

As someone from across the pond, is the territory of the former Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth not considered Eastern Europe? It seems to have competed well from 1385 - 1772, until the forced partitioning by surrounding states.

sofixa 5y ago
Yes, it is Eastern Europe, but was already in a steady decline well before the partitions.
- _0ffh 5y ago
  It's "eastern" only insofar as it ended up on the eastern side of the iron curtain. Geographically, Poland is very much a central European country.

hld 5y ago

I'd say it is more complex than this. I can recommend the book written by Marie-Janin Calic [0] which goes over the complicated history of Yugoslavia and makes it a bit clearer why the Balkans is the way it is these days. But regarding your first sentence: definitely. If you listen closely you will often notice how Europeans mentally exclude the Balkans from whatever it is they are talking about. I think this sentiment has been especially felt when the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize given that apparently there have been no wars in Europe after WWII. [0] https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/24993 https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/24993

haunter 5y ago

>I've heard some don't even consider these parts Europe. Absolutely. I'm from East Europe and you can really feel and notice that when the European Union address certain topics. This is also the struggle of the former Eastern Bloc countries. Rejected by the west but culturally always closer to them (especially Germany and France) not to the slavic Russia.

thriftwy 5y ago
This is a funny claim considering that Russia itself is culturally closer in many areas to France and Germany and not the rest of slavic East Europe. Tolstoi and Chaikovskiy have very little to do with Eastern European/slavic culture and clearly embrace Western European tradition.
ryan93 5y ago
Not really rejected by the west. They could have taken marshall plan money if stalin didnt forbid it.
- panick21_ 5y ago
  The Marshall plan, no matter how much the US hypes it, is not a magical get rich pill. And the Marshall plan is certainty not why Western Europe is rich today. In fact, places that have received less Marshall Plan money often did better then does that did. I understand in the US the Marshall Plan is often taught as this amazing act that prevented WW3 but that a lot of propaganda. To to say it was bad, but whenever I hear people talk about the Marshall Plan it sounds like they are talking about the second coming of Christ.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    The resulting policies from the league of nations after WW1 directly contributed to the rise of Germany as the main antagonist of the European theater of WW2. In that context, the Marshall Plan was a complete reversal of policy, and saw the rise of allies out of the ashes. It should be small wonder, then, that the Marshall Plan gets the credit for averting future war. Certainly it was not panacea, but that is no reason to ignore the effect entirely.