5 ms·

Why do you feel entitled to idle your vehicle where it's bothering dozens of people? It sounds a lot like you have a problem with your vehicle and should deal

Why do you feel entitled to idle your vehicle where it's bothering dozens of people? It sounds a lot like you have a problem with your vehicle and should deal with it.

wowokay 5y ago
By this logic what is wrong with all those people getting up early and driving to work, don’t they know some of us don’t have a job! Where do they get off?
- hannasanarion 5y ago
  On the bus or train. There's no reason that anyone should need to use a personal car for commuting inside urban areas.
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    >There's no reason that anyone should need to use a personal car for commuting inside urban areas. This ignores every laborer that requires heavy tools to complete their daily task. The people that keep your buildings and homes comfortable, for example, can easily have hundreds of pounds of tools.
    - notch656a 5y ago
      Lol you think this was written by someone who depends on moving heavy tools for their daily job? The fact this was completely overlooked, by someone so removed from the commoner as to not even realize the common man often needs a truck full of tools as part of their commute, tells you all you need to know about the perspective of this viewpoint.
      - sagarm 5y ago
        The set of jobs that require moving around a truck full of tools is tiny relative to the number of workers -- blue collar or not -- that don't need this. So who, really, is the common man? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2014/ted_20140409.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2014/ted_20140409.htm
        notch656a 5y ago
        No one is going to buy into your hypothesis hinting that a plumber or electrician who carries their tools in their truck as part of their commute isn't part of the common man. It's simply a semantic game, trying to frame a definition to meet your extremist viewpoints. It takes a serious disconnect from reality to make the statement 'There's no reason that anyone should need to use a personal car for commuting inside urban areas.' Either someone remarkably rich or naive.
    - hannasanarion 5y ago
      That's not a "commuting with a personal car", that's "working with a company car". Completely different use case. Steve the Office Manager doesn't need a 2.5 ton pickup truck with a 6-foot-tall frontend that needs a forward-facing camera because the visibility is so shit that there's no way to avoid splattering all of the children on the 2 mile trip through populated neighborhoods between his house and office. And yes, Steve is a representative buyer of big trucks these days. Actual working professionals want to be able to actually see where they're going, so they buy vehicles with short frontends and high capacity, like the Ford Transit. A Edwards poll of Pickup owners in 2018 showed that 75% have never hauled anything, and 70% use the bed less than once a year (ie, never). The sales numbers bear this out as well, pickups with actual usable bed space are very unpopular, almost all the units that are sold have crew cabs, with about as much room in the back for hauling as a minivan with the bench down.
      - notch656a 5y ago
        >That's not a "commuting with a personal car", that's "working with a company car". Completely different use case. Another case of complete disconnect from reality. Many tradesmen use their own personal vehicles. If you want to call it a 'company car' because the commute involves transport of professional tools, then go ahead and play that semantic game. >And yes, Steve is a representative buyer of big trucks these days. Actual working professionals want to be able to actually see where they're going, so they buy vehicles with short frontends and high capacity, like the Ford Transit. Something you're so intimately familiar with, that you totally overlooked that there actually are reasons 'anyone should need to use a personal car for commuting inside urban areas.' >Steve the Office Manager doesn't need a 2.5 ton pickup truck with a 6-foot-tall frontend that needs a forward-facing camera because the visibility is so shit that there's no way to avoid splattering all of the children on the 2 mile trip through populated neighborhoods between his house and office. And you probably don't need to have your heat set past 50 degrees in winter or 90 degrees in summer, but I bet you use more energy than you need, helping destroy the environment and kill off animals. You don't need to buy lots of things, but won't someone THINK of the splattered CHILDREN!!! >A Edwards poll of Pickup owners in 2018 showed that 75% have never hauled anything, and 70% use the bed less than once a year (ie, never). The sales numbers bear this out as well, pickups with actual usable bed space are very unpopular, almost all the units that are sold have crew cabs, with about as much room in the back for hauling as a minivan with the bench down. The change in pick-up trucks to be massive oversized behemoths including those with large cabs is the result of mental illness of those passing CAFE standards which made it effectively illegal to produce a small efficient truck.
  - xkqd 5y ago
    Laborers, small biz folks, anyone who visits multiple sites a day with no set cadence, or people who just want to feel in control over their commutes - blanket statements like this miss large swathes of the people who actually power the city. And at the end of the day, are you really willing to strip people of the freedom to drive through an urban area?
    - hannasanarion 5y ago
      > And at the end of the day, are you really willing to strip people of the freedom to drive through an urban area? Yes, for exactly the same reason as I'm willing to strip people of the freedom to practice shooting at elementary schools.
    - hkt 5y ago
      I'm sure this wasn't your intention, but you've identified that there are two groups (or more) with very different levels of utility associated with their choices. People who "just want to feel in control" are, essentially, externalising the cost of their choices while having better options available to them. There's not an upside for anyone. Whereas people who need to drive, where work couldn't be done at all if they didn't, would actually be more efficient if they had clearer roads to get around on. It would save them fuel costs and time. Really though, I sense that your argument isn't in good faith. A nuanced look at this can easily see that some activities in a city require a vehicle to add value, and others don't. Lumping the two together and citing freedom (to externalise the cost of your choices on to others) is a little like using tradespeople as human shields.
  - mike22 5y ago
    A white collar worker in good shape going from, say, Rego Park to Wall St is a great candidate for the subway. But that’s the happy path. If you need to go from there to the far parts of Brooklyn, or any part of the Bronx or Staten Island? Virtually impossible (if you want to get to work before lunch time) without a car. And certainly many with disabilities would have a hard time (as much as the MTA is improving on this front).
ashwagary 5y ago
>It sounds a lot like you have a problem with your vehicle The winter temperature extreme in NYC is around -16F, not idling until the engine block warms would be a problem for most vehicles.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  It is hardly ever -16F in NYC, or anything close to that.
- Too 5y ago
  Get an electric engine warmer, defa or calix are popular here. Don’t know about NY but here in cold Sweden you can find such outlets on most private apartment block parking spaces. This is not an EV charger, just a normal power outlet you plug into your car for the purpose of heating the engine and some times also the cabin. Today they aren’t as popular as they used to be, modern cars usually have no problem starting anyway. And most people are lazy to plug a cable so instead use the cars built in pre-conditioner, which sadly also burns diesel and smells even worse than when combusted through the engine. More modern cars can also utilize the EV charger for this purpose. Another reason why hybrid or EVs are superior to diesel in the city.
- brewdad 5y ago
  The all time record low for NYC is -15F. The last time NYC had a low below 0F was 2016 at -1F. Before that, it hit -2F in 1994. So, GTFO with your need to warm up your engine for half an hour. https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/NY/New-York-City/extreme-annual-new-york-city-low-temperature.php https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/NY/New-Yor...
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    >The winter temperature extreme in NYC is around -16F That is generally implied by the word 'extreme'. >GTFO with your need to warm up your engine for half an hour. Nobody said 30 minutes anywhere in this thread.
- sdoering 5y ago
disambiguation 5y ago
by this logic, do you feel entitled to bother dozens of people with your commentary? we're all entitled to freedom under the law, and some people depend on cars to make a living. I say this is a car-less NYC resident, bounty hunting culture is dumb.
- morsch 5y ago
  You can easily choose not to read his post, people can't easily choose not to breathe the air where they live. Well, some people can, they can get a car and move. People are entitled to freedom under the law, but society is free to enact laws that make idling illegal, even if it means some people's vehicles won't start in winter, or restrict vehicle traffic on certain urban streets, whether this pertains to 18-wheelers or a regular handymans truck. Though I'm sure some people will claim there is a constitutional right to getting everywhere by car, and so society is actually not free to do that. Either way, I doubt there will be significant change. Car culture has a vice-like grip on society, there is no path whatsoever out of this particular local maximum. There may be gestures towards coexistence with other modes of transportation, but never at a significant cost to cars. And that just isn't enough.
  - disambiguation 5y ago
    idling is already illegal and calling the police is free state sponsored snitching is dumb
- sdoering 5y ago
  Wow. So you feel it comparable to pollute a neighborhood with health adverse fumes to receiving commentary about such behavior? What you are talking about is not freedom. It is the opposite. It is egoism. You want to do as you please without (negativ) consequences for your actions. Your freedom ends when it impairs the freedom of others. In this case the freedom not to be poisoned by your car's unnecessary (that is the important distinction here) exhaust fumes. But yeah. Go on denigrating others by calling them entitled.
  - 5y ago
refurb 5y ago
Why do you feel entitled to post on HN? Your comment is bothering dozens of people.
- sdoering 5y ago
  As someone else stated on a sibling comment of yours. You can decide not to read. But you cannot decide not to breath. You argue (if one could call you polemic that) to be free of the (negative) consequences of your actions. Free to dump your externalities onto society and burden others with the fallout of you (unnecessary) actions. That is not freedom my dear fellow.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Huh? How can I decide not to read a comment before reading it? The only way for me to tell if a comment offends me, is if I read it, but by then I'm already offended. "Externalities" is a useful economic concept but it's been hijacked by people who use it as "stop doing things I don't like".
    - lostdog 5y ago
      "offended me" is a really different thing than "woke me up and messed up my lungs." If my comment woke you up last night, then I apologize for making it.
      - refurb 5y ago
        So you’re arguing externalities are a matter of harm? And less harmful ones can be ignored?

Why do you feel entitled to idle your vehicle where it's bothering dozens of people? It sounds a lot like you have a problem with your vehicle and should deal with it.

wowokay 5y ago

By this logic what is wrong with all those people getting up early and driving to work, don’t they know some of us don’t have a job! Where do they get off?

hannasanarion 5y ago
On the bus or train. There's no reason that anyone should need to use a personal car for commuting inside urban areas.
- ashwagary 5y ago
  >There's no reason that anyone should need to use a personal car for commuting inside urban areas. This ignores every laborer that requires heavy tools to complete their daily task. The people that keep your buildings and homes comfortable, for example, can easily have hundreds of pounds of tools.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    Lol you think this was written by someone who depends on moving heavy tools for their daily job? The fact this was completely overlooked, by someone so removed from the commoner as to not even realize the common man often needs a truck full of tools as part of their commute, tells you all you need to know about the perspective of this viewpoint.
    - sagarm 5y ago
      The set of jobs that require moving around a truck full of tools is tiny relative to the number of workers -- blue collar or not -- that don't need this. So who, really, is the common man? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2014/ted_20140409.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2014/ted_20140409.htm
      - notch656a 5y ago
        No one is going to buy into your hypothesis hinting that a plumber or electrician who carries their tools in their truck as part of their commute isn't part of the common man. It's simply a semantic game, trying to frame a definition to meet your extremist viewpoints. It takes a serious disconnect from reality to make the statement 'There's no reason that anyone should need to use a personal car for commuting inside urban areas.' Either someone remarkably rich or naive.
  - hannasanarion 5y ago
    That's not a "commuting with a personal car", that's "working with a company car". Completely different use case. Steve the Office Manager doesn't need a 2.5 ton pickup truck with a 6-foot-tall frontend that needs a forward-facing camera because the visibility is so shit that there's no way to avoid splattering all of the children on the 2 mile trip through populated neighborhoods between his house and office. And yes, Steve is a representative buyer of big trucks these days. Actual working professionals want to be able to actually see where they're going, so they buy vehicles with short frontends and high capacity, like the Ford Transit. A Edwards poll of Pickup owners in 2018 showed that 75% have never hauled anything, and 70% use the bed less than once a year (ie, never). The sales numbers bear this out as well, pickups with actual usable bed space are very unpopular, almost all the units that are sold have crew cabs, with about as much room in the back for hauling as a minivan with the bench down.
    - notch656a 5y ago
      >That's not a "commuting with a personal car", that's "working with a company car". Completely different use case. Another case of complete disconnect from reality. Many tradesmen use their own personal vehicles. If you want to call it a 'company car' because the commute involves transport of professional tools, then go ahead and play that semantic game. >And yes, Steve is a representative buyer of big trucks these days. Actual working professionals want to be able to actually see where they're going, so they buy vehicles with short frontends and high capacity, like the Ford Transit. Something you're so intimately familiar with, that you totally overlooked that there actually are reasons 'anyone should need to use a personal car for commuting inside urban areas.' >Steve the Office Manager doesn't need a 2.5 ton pickup truck with a 6-foot-tall frontend that needs a forward-facing camera because the visibility is so shit that there's no way to avoid splattering all of the children on the 2 mile trip through populated neighborhoods between his house and office. And you probably don't need to have your heat set past 50 degrees in winter or 90 degrees in summer, but I bet you use more energy than you need, helping destroy the environment and kill off animals. You don't need to buy lots of things, but won't someone THINK of the splattered CHILDREN!!! >A Edwards poll of Pickup owners in 2018 showed that 75% have never hauled anything, and 70% use the bed less than once a year (ie, never). The sales numbers bear this out as well, pickups with actual usable bed space are very unpopular, almost all the units that are sold have crew cabs, with about as much room in the back for hauling as a minivan with the bench down. The change in pick-up trucks to be massive oversized behemoths including those with large cabs is the result of mental illness of those passing CAFE standards which made it effectively illegal to produce a small efficient truck.
- xkqd 5y ago
  Laborers, small biz folks, anyone who visits multiple sites a day with no set cadence, or people who just want to feel in control over their commutes - blanket statements like this miss large swathes of the people who actually power the city. And at the end of the day, are you really willing to strip people of the freedom to drive through an urban area?
  - hannasanarion 5y ago
    > And at the end of the day, are you really willing to strip people of the freedom to drive through an urban area? Yes, for exactly the same reason as I'm willing to strip people of the freedom to practice shooting at elementary schools.
  - hkt 5y ago
    I'm sure this wasn't your intention, but you've identified that there are two groups (or more) with very different levels of utility associated with their choices. People who "just want to feel in control" are, essentially, externalising the cost of their choices while having better options available to them. There's not an upside for anyone. Whereas people who need to drive, where work couldn't be done at all if they didn't, would actually be more efficient if they had clearer roads to get around on. It would save them fuel costs and time. Really though, I sense that your argument isn't in good faith. A nuanced look at this can easily see that some activities in a city require a vehicle to add value, and others don't. Lumping the two together and citing freedom (to externalise the cost of your choices on to others) is a little like using tradespeople as human shields.
- mike22 5y ago
  A white collar worker in good shape going from, say, Rego Park to Wall St is a great candidate for the subway. But that’s the happy path. If you need to go from there to the far parts of Brooklyn, or any part of the Bronx or Staten Island? Virtually impossible (if you want to get to work before lunch time) without a car. And certainly many with disabilities would have a hard time (as much as the MTA is improving on this front).

ashwagary 5y ago

>It sounds a lot like you have a problem with your vehicle The winter temperature extreme in NYC is around -16F, not idling until the engine block warms would be a problem for most vehicles.

wolverine876 5y ago
It is hardly ever -16F in NYC, or anything close to that.
Too 5y ago
Get an electric engine warmer, defa or calix are popular here. Don’t know about NY but here in cold Sweden you can find such outlets on most private apartment block parking spaces. This is not an EV charger, just a normal power outlet you plug into your car for the purpose of heating the engine and some times also the cabin. Today they aren’t as popular as they used to be, modern cars usually have no problem starting anyway. And most people are lazy to plug a cable so instead use the cars built in pre-conditioner, which sadly also burns diesel and smells even worse than when combusted through the engine. More modern cars can also utilize the EV charger for this purpose. Another reason why hybrid or EVs are superior to diesel in the city.
brewdad 5y ago
The all time record low for NYC is -15F. The last time NYC had a low below 0F was 2016 at -1F. Before that, it hit -2F in 1994. So, GTFO with your need to warm up your engine for half an hour. https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/NY/New-York-City/extreme-annual-new-york-city-low-temperature.php https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/NY/New-Yor...
- ashwagary 5y ago
  >The winter temperature extreme in NYC is around -16F That is generally implied by the word 'extreme'. >GTFO with your need to warm up your engine for half an hour. Nobody said 30 minutes anywhere in this thread.
sdoering 5y ago

disambiguation 5y ago

by this logic, do you feel entitled to bother dozens of people with your commentary? we're all entitled to freedom under the law, and some people depend on cars to make a living. I say this is a car-less NYC resident, bounty hunting culture is dumb.

morsch 5y ago
You can easily choose not to read his post, people can't easily choose not to breathe the air where they live. Well, some people can, they can get a car and move. People are entitled to freedom under the law, but society is free to enact laws that make idling illegal, even if it means some people's vehicles won't start in winter, or restrict vehicle traffic on certain urban streets, whether this pertains to 18-wheelers or a regular handymans truck. Though I'm sure some people will claim there is a constitutional right to getting everywhere by car, and so society is actually not free to do that. Either way, I doubt there will be significant change. Car culture has a vice-like grip on society, there is no path whatsoever out of this particular local maximum. There may be gestures towards coexistence with other modes of transportation, but never at a significant cost to cars. And that just isn't enough.
- disambiguation 5y ago
  idling is already illegal and calling the police is free state sponsored snitching is dumb
sdoering 5y ago
Wow. So you feel it comparable to pollute a neighborhood with health adverse fumes to receiving commentary about such behavior? What you are talking about is not freedom. It is the opposite. It is egoism. You want to do as you please without (negativ) consequences for your actions. Your freedom ends when it impairs the freedom of others. In this case the freedom not to be poisoned by your car's unnecessary (that is the important distinction here) exhaust fumes. But yeah. Go on denigrating others by calling them entitled.
- 5y ago

refurb 5y ago

Why do you feel entitled to post on HN? Your comment is bothering dozens of people.

sdoering 5y ago
As someone else stated on a sibling comment of yours. You can decide not to read. But you cannot decide not to breath. You argue (if one could call you polemic that) to be free of the (negative) consequences of your actions. Free to dump your externalities onto society and burden others with the fallout of you (unnecessary) actions. That is not freedom my dear fellow.
- refurb 5y ago
  Huh? How can I decide not to read a comment before reading it? The only way for me to tell if a comment offends me, is if I read it, but by then I'm already offended. "Externalities" is a useful economic concept but it's been hijacked by people who use it as "stop doing things I don't like".
  - lostdog 5y ago
    "offended me" is a really different thing than "woke me up and messed up my lungs." If my comment woke you up last night, then I apologize for making it.
    - refurb 5y ago
      So you’re arguing externalities are a matter of harm? And less harmful ones can be ignored?