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Russians using VPNs for truth on Ukraine starts fights among friends and family

14 points by webmaven 5y ago

webmaven 5y ago
https://archive.ph/P8qJi https://archive.ph/P8qJi Original headline(s): Russians are using VPNs to access the truth about Ukraine. It's leading to fights between friends and families. Some Russians are breaking through Putin’s digital iron curtain — leading to fights with friends and family
ggm 5y ago
One of the few statistics from inside Russia I chose to believe is the 70% support the war figure. Why? Because in times past, the more usual claim has been 90%plus. 70% means a significant vocal opposition to Putin exists and should have at a minimum 1/3 representation in votes and the duma/parliament, assuming opposition to the war translated to voting and candidates existed. Given the distortions of news, 30% opposition can grow. Putin will not be planning on 70% turning to 80% when the body bags come in. The most likely path from here is downward. War is not popular without evidence of need. The fascist story is fantastically stupid. It won't last, because it depends on maintenance of a paper thin veil on reality which again the body bags tears a hole in. Troops on the ground, conscripts are going to bring another side to bear on Russian domestic reportage. I stress, this 70% figure is backed only by belief on my part. I have no evidence of the balance of support for the war. And it is a war. Putin won't succeed in corralling this as a peacekeeping intervention.
- vegai_ 5y ago
  > It won't last, because it depends on maintenance of a paper thin veil on reality which again the body bags tears a hole in. According to some sources (possibly biased), Putin seems to have fixed this potential problem by leaving all the Russian bodies in Ukraine.
  - jaclaz 5y ago
    >Putin seems to have fixed this potential problem by leaving all the Russian bodies in Ukraine. Surely this will slow down the news, and surely it will limit the psychological impact but if there are actually (as reported by some sources) several thousands of Russian soldiers dead, before or later it will come out, I doubt that families will accept silently their losses.
    - ggm 5y ago
      Yes. This says it succinctly. The attrition rate is above that normally considered acceptable in the west. Make some allowances for a harsher regime (Russian cadets die from hazing far too often) but for the families, nothing is bringing their boys home. Putin can't fix this. He can only lose support from this war.
    - webmaven 5y ago
      Unfortunately, there is a lot more an autocratic regime can do to obscure the fatalities, or at least their circumstances. At some point, only a surviving fellow soldier disobeying orders to inform the family can pierce the veil of secrecy.
- myth_drannon 5y ago
  70% in support of the war is the same fictitious number as the 90%(or whatever) that voted for Putin. Don't believe Putin's lies.
yucky 5y ago

14 points by webmaven 5y ago

https://archive.ph/P8qJi https://archive.ph/P8qJi Original headline(s): Russians are using VPNs to access the truth about Ukraine. It's leading to fights between friends and families. Some Russians are breaking through Putin’s digital iron curtain — leading to fights with friends and family

ggm 5y ago

One of the few statistics from inside Russia I chose to believe is the 70% support the war figure. Why? Because in times past, the more usual claim has been 90%plus. 70% means a significant vocal opposition to Putin exists and should have at a minimum 1/3 representation in votes and the duma/parliament, assuming opposition to the war translated to voting and candidates existed. Given the distortions of news, 30% opposition can grow. Putin will not be planning on 70% turning to 80% when the body bags come in. The most likely path from here is downward. War is not popular without evidence of need. The fascist story is fantastically stupid. It won't last, because it depends on maintenance of a paper thin veil on reality which again the body bags tears a hole in. Troops on the ground, conscripts are going to bring another side to bear on Russian domestic reportage. I stress, this 70% figure is backed only by belief on my part. I have no evidence of the balance of support for the war. And it is a war. Putin won't succeed in corralling this as a peacekeeping intervention.

vegai_ 5y ago
> It won't last, because it depends on maintenance of a paper thin veil on reality which again the body bags tears a hole in. According to some sources (possibly biased), Putin seems to have fixed this potential problem by leaving all the Russian bodies in Ukraine.
- jaclaz 5y ago
  >Putin seems to have fixed this potential problem by leaving all the Russian bodies in Ukraine. Surely this will slow down the news, and surely it will limit the psychological impact but if there are actually (as reported by some sources) several thousands of Russian soldiers dead, before or later it will come out, I doubt that families will accept silently their losses.
  - ggm 5y ago
    Yes. This says it succinctly. The attrition rate is above that normally considered acceptable in the west. Make some allowances for a harsher regime (Russian cadets die from hazing far too often) but for the families, nothing is bringing their boys home. Putin can't fix this. He can only lose support from this war.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    Unfortunately, there is a lot more an autocratic regime can do to obscure the fatalities, or at least their circumstances. At some point, only a surviving fellow soldier disobeying orders to inform the family can pierce the veil of secrecy.
myth_drannon 5y ago
70% in support of the war is the same fictitious number as the 90%(or whatever) that voted for Putin. Don't believe Putin's lies.

yucky 5y ago