8 ms·

Practically, what should one do to avoid lead poisoning here and now? Lead petrol is banned. Lead paint is banned. Lead pipes are a problem in some areas, but

by csee 5y ago

Practically, what should one do to avoid lead poisoning here and now? Lead petrol is banned. Lead paint is banned. Lead pipes are a problem in some areas, but let's assume we don't live in these areas. What do we need to look out for?

micromacrofoot 5y ago
another one: get your soil tested, don’t wear your shoes in your house
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > don’t wear your shoes in your house This is good advice for many other contaminants as well.
jeffbee 5y ago
Paint chips are the main thing. Don’t needlessly demolish anything and if you do, do it right, with containment and wet cleanup. And, ideally, a trained and licensed crew. Don’t let your neighbors DIY exterior painting, scraping, or demolition, or do it with a fly-by-night unlicensed contractor and no permits. Don’t let your kids chew on the window sills. Don’t garden for food without thinking about it first.
- mindslight 5y ago
  > Don’t let your neighbors DIY exterior painting, scraping, or demolition WTF? Yes, go ahead and advocate responsible techniques. But if you're the type of meddling busybody that harasses others just for working on their own homes, don't be surprised when nobody listens to you.
  - csee 5y ago
    Negative externalities between neighbors is a thing. See noise pollution.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      Yes, but by the time someone is trying to stop their neighbors from working on their own homes using the same mitigation techniques a licensed/insured contractor would, we're well past the point of discussing externalities and solidly into HOA-hellhole territory.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - jljljl 5y ago
        I think the point is that if they are _not_ using the same mitigation techniques, you have a right to prevent their DIY actions from poisoning you and your family. And if they don’t have a license or permit, how can you verify they are following best practice? Led contamination risk is definitely more serious than HOA-hellhole
        mindslight 5y ago
        OP said nothing about evaluating their techniques, but rather a blanket "Don’t let your neighbors DIY exterior painting, scraping, or demolition". > if they don’t have a license or permit, how can you verify they are following best practice? What exactly do you think licenses/permits guarantee? At best, an inspector knows the least responsible crews and checks in on them more often. That's about it. The only way you can actually verify someone is following best practices is to know what those practices are and observe their behavior. By expressing a belief that permitted professionals somehow automatically conform and DIYers automatically do not, one indicates that one has no idea what best practices actually are but yet feels qualified to judge anyway.
        jljljl 5y ago
        > What exactly do you think licenses/permits guarantee? Licenses confirm that the person doing the work is trained in the best practices + safety for the work that they are doing. Permits ensure that they have filed a plan with the city/state that matches safety regulations, and that this plan is available for the public to review and comment on. It doesn't guarantee automatic conformity, but it shows that their plans have been confirmed _and_ provides an avenue to verify that they are conforming to those plans. I can't confirm everything that a doctor does either, but I'd still much rather see a licensed one than an unlicensed one.
  - eropple 5y ago
    The poster to whom you are replying is completely correct. It's not the same thing as thinking the windows they're putting in are ugly. It's not even like asbestos mitigation, where stupid decisions there only really impact the people who live there. These are health and safety risks to people around you, not just you yourself. It's a community concern. Your neighbors' decisions around lead management and mitigation directly impact you and you are within your rights to insist that they follow proper safety procedures. To cast that as "meddling" or "harassment" is odious.
    - snypher 5y ago
      I'm sorry, can we go back to the part where i "don't let my neighbors" do something? Unless they are in violation of a law that is actually enforced by someone, I don't think I have standing to let or not let them do anything.
      - eropple 5y ago
        In American jurisdictions of which I am aware, there are such laws around handling hazardous materials (and lead, especially in particulate form, qualifies). In hypothetical places where there aren't, the concept of a tort still exists. You do, in fact, "have standing" to not have your neighbors poison you. This is a good thing. It should be celebrated.
      - jeffbee 5y ago
        In which you have convincing demonstrated that libertarianism and lead poisoning are locked in a mutually-sustaining cycle of brain damage.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      Sure, it's a community concern. This gives neighbors the right to express their concerns and offer advice and help, not to overbearingly insist that work is only done by "professionals" who magically bless the situation. Legally, it's generally commercial activity (eg contractors) that is regulated. Thus, after you've talked to your neighbor about best practices for mitigating lead dust, you've effectively exhausted your options. After that point, not "letting" them DIY will basically consist of harassment.
  - ip26 5y ago
    If you live in a development that was built in the days of lead paint, IMO it seems fair to notice if your next door neighbor is carelessly demo'ing or sanding the exterior. Lead dust from their work can blow into your life.
woodruffw 5y ago
My understanding is that the majority of lead exposure today comes from two sources: lead dust accumulation in older construction (lead paint is banned, but removal is usually not required), and lead contamination in consumer products. The former is easier to avoid: make sure to maintain the integrity of the paint in your living space, particularly where it regularly encounters moisture or friction (like windowsills and mantles). The latter is harder: lead is a useful industrial material, and it finds its way into all kinds of plastics, glass, etc. Dry spices can also have high amounts of lead, depending on the plant and the region it was grown in. All of that said, lead is not like nuclear waste: it's not a latent risk. Leaded paint and lead jointing in pipes, when maintained correctly, do not pose an exposure risk. You can spend your entire life using lead tackles and lead solder without hurting yourself, as long as you take basic precautions during and after use.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
Small plane fuel is still leaded. I know a few air fields in my area that were converted to housing developments and/or parks/retail/offices. I assume the ground is still contaminated in those areas, and any fruits from plants growing on it will be contaminated also. I also assume small planes rain down lead wherever they fly.
- hgomersall 5y ago
  I looked into this a short while ago and came to the conclusion that fruit is probably ok. It's root vegetables that are the worst and then leaf and stem, then fruit doesn't seem to pick much up even from fairly highly contaminated soil. I now can't find all the papers though, so YMMV.
- CSSer 5y ago
  Just wanted to add that it's planned to be phased out by 2030 now[0]. Kind of insane they're giving them that long if you ask me but I guess it's better than nothing. [0]: https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-industry-chart-path-eliminate-lead-emissions-general-aviation-end-2030 https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-industry-chart-path-elimina...
  - paulmd 5y ago
    General aviation (contrast to "commercial aviation"), which is the only place leaded gasoline is really used even within the industry, died in the 1970s. Not sure of the exact bill but the FAA drastically tightened approval processes to the extent that essentially only commercial aviation has enough volume to make it financially viable to get through the regulatory approval process. There's a few exceptions, like Cirrus and maybe Diamond, but almost all general aviation aircraft either predate those regulations entirely, or are in hardware configurations that predate those regulations and have been grandfathered. Sometimes - rarely - you get a new engine or whatever, but it's very rare that anyone goes for approval of a whole new airframe or anymore. It's the same reason Boeing prefers to add a dumb computer-assist system on the 737 MAX instead of just changing their airframe - change the airframe and you have to do a complete re-approval process. In short, they are still using leaded gasoline because they're still using 1950s and 1960s engine designs (and in many cases, actual 60s/70s-production engines and airframes) because the FAA approval process makes it impossible/prohibitively uneconomical to replace them. Not saying removing lead isn't important, but bear in mind this is essentially gutting public access to aerospace and aviation. We've already seen the loss of R/C aircraft as a hobby, the "feeders" into aerospace are getting pretty slim indeed.
thesausageking 5y ago
The CDC has a good site on lead exposure: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources.htm The biggest concerns are lead paint in older homes, contaminated soil, food and cosmetics, and toys and other consumer products.

by csee 5y ago

micromacrofoot 5y ago

another one: get your soil tested, don’t wear your shoes in your house

goodpoint 5y ago
> don’t wear your shoes in your house This is good advice for many other contaminants as well.

jeffbee 5y ago

Paint chips are the main thing. Don’t needlessly demolish anything and if you do, do it right, with containment and wet cleanup. And, ideally, a trained and licensed crew. Don’t let your neighbors DIY exterior painting, scraping, or demolition, or do it with a fly-by-night unlicensed contractor and no permits. Don’t let your kids chew on the window sills. Don’t garden for food without thinking about it first.

mindslight 5y ago
> Don’t let your neighbors DIY exterior painting, scraping, or demolition WTF? Yes, go ahead and advocate responsible techniques. But if you're the type of meddling busybody that harasses others just for working on their own homes, don't be surprised when nobody listens to you.
- csee 5y ago
  Negative externalities between neighbors is a thing. See noise pollution.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    Yes, but by the time someone is trying to stop their neighbors from working on their own homes using the same mitigation techniques a licensed/insured contractor would, we're well past the point of discussing externalities and solidly into HOA-hellhole territory.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jljljl 5y ago
      I think the point is that if they are _not_ using the same mitigation techniques, you have a right to prevent their DIY actions from poisoning you and your family. And if they don’t have a license or permit, how can you verify they are following best practice? Led contamination risk is definitely more serious than HOA-hellhole
      - mindslight 5y ago
        OP said nothing about evaluating their techniques, but rather a blanket "Don’t let your neighbors DIY exterior painting, scraping, or demolition". > if they don’t have a license or permit, how can you verify they are following best practice? What exactly do you think licenses/permits guarantee? At best, an inspector knows the least responsible crews and checks in on them more often. That's about it. The only way you can actually verify someone is following best practices is to know what those practices are and observe their behavior. By expressing a belief that permitted professionals somehow automatically conform and DIYers automatically do not, one indicates that one has no idea what best practices actually are but yet feels qualified to judge anyway.
        jljljl 5y ago
        > What exactly do you think licenses/permits guarantee? Licenses confirm that the person doing the work is trained in the best practices + safety for the work that they are doing. Permits ensure that they have filed a plan with the city/state that matches safety regulations, and that this plan is available for the public to review and comment on. It doesn't guarantee automatic conformity, but it shows that their plans have been confirmed _and_ provides an avenue to verify that they are conforming to those plans. I can't confirm everything that a doctor does either, but I'd still much rather see a licensed one than an unlicensed one.
- eropple 5y ago
  The poster to whom you are replying is completely correct. It's not the same thing as thinking the windows they're putting in are ugly. It's not even like asbestos mitigation, where stupid decisions there only really impact the people who live there. These are health and safety risks to people around you, not just you yourself. It's a community concern. Your neighbors' decisions around lead management and mitigation directly impact you and you are within your rights to insist that they follow proper safety procedures. To cast that as "meddling" or "harassment" is odious.
  - snypher 5y ago
    I'm sorry, can we go back to the part where i "don't let my neighbors" do something? Unless they are in violation of a law that is actually enforced by someone, I don't think I have standing to let or not let them do anything.
    - eropple 5y ago
      In American jurisdictions of which I am aware, there are such laws around handling hazardous materials (and lead, especially in particulate form, qualifies). In hypothetical places where there aren't, the concept of a tort still exists. You do, in fact, "have standing" to not have your neighbors poison you. This is a good thing. It should be celebrated.
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      In which you have convincing demonstrated that libertarianism and lead poisoning are locked in a mutually-sustaining cycle of brain damage.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    Sure, it's a community concern. This gives neighbors the right to express their concerns and offer advice and help, not to overbearingly insist that work is only done by "professionals" who magically bless the situation. Legally, it's generally commercial activity (eg contractors) that is regulated. Thus, after you've talked to your neighbor about best practices for mitigating lead dust, you've effectively exhausted your options. After that point, not "letting" them DIY will basically consist of harassment.
- ip26 5y ago
  If you live in a development that was built in the days of lead paint, IMO it seems fair to notice if your next door neighbor is carelessly demo'ing or sanding the exterior. Lead dust from their work can blow into your life.

woodruffw 5y ago

My understanding is that the majority of lead exposure today comes from two sources: lead dust accumulation in older construction (lead paint is banned, but removal is usually not required), and lead contamination in consumer products. The former is easier to avoid: make sure to maintain the integrity of the paint in your living space, particularly where it regularly encounters moisture or friction (like windowsills and mantles). The latter is harder: lead is a useful industrial material, and it finds its way into all kinds of plastics, glass, etc. Dry spices can also have high amounts of lead, depending on the plant and the region it was grown in. All of that said, lead is not like nuclear waste: it's not a latent risk. Leaded paint and lead jointing in pipes, when maintained correctly, do not pose an exposure risk. You can spend your entire life using lead tackles and lead solder without hurting yourself, as long as you take basic precautions during and after use.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Small plane fuel is still leaded. I know a few air fields in my area that were converted to housing developments and/or parks/retail/offices. I assume the ground is still contaminated in those areas, and any fruits from plants growing on it will be contaminated also. I also assume small planes rain down lead wherever they fly.

hgomersall 5y ago
I looked into this a short while ago and came to the conclusion that fruit is probably ok. It's root vegetables that are the worst and then leaf and stem, then fruit doesn't seem to pick much up even from fairly highly contaminated soil. I now can't find all the papers though, so YMMV.
CSSer 5y ago
Just wanted to add that it's planned to be phased out by 2030 now[0]. Kind of insane they're giving them that long if you ask me but I guess it's better than nothing. [0]: https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-industry-chart-path-eliminate-lead-emissions-general-aviation-end-2030 https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-industry-chart-path-elimina...
- paulmd 5y ago
  General aviation (contrast to "commercial aviation"), which is the only place leaded gasoline is really used even within the industry, died in the 1970s. Not sure of the exact bill but the FAA drastically tightened approval processes to the extent that essentially only commercial aviation has enough volume to make it financially viable to get through the regulatory approval process. There's a few exceptions, like Cirrus and maybe Diamond, but almost all general aviation aircraft either predate those regulations entirely, or are in hardware configurations that predate those regulations and have been grandfathered. Sometimes - rarely - you get a new engine or whatever, but it's very rare that anyone goes for approval of a whole new airframe or anymore. It's the same reason Boeing prefers to add a dumb computer-assist system on the 737 MAX instead of just changing their airframe - change the airframe and you have to do a complete re-approval process. In short, they are still using leaded gasoline because they're still using 1950s and 1960s engine designs (and in many cases, actual 60s/70s-production engines and airframes) because the FAA approval process makes it impossible/prohibitively uneconomical to replace them. Not saying removing lead isn't important, but bear in mind this is essentially gutting public access to aerospace and aviation. We've already seen the loss of R/C aircraft as a hobby, the "feeders" into aerospace are getting pretty slim indeed.

thesausageking 5y ago

The CDC has a good site on lead exposure: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources.htm The biggest concerns are lead paint in older homes, contaminated soil, food and cosmetics, and toys and other consumer products.