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> <snip…> the games aren't actually thaaat difficult, they're just uncompromising and they punish mistakes. I find that phrasing interesting, as I would consid

by mook 5y ago

> <snip…> the games aren't actually thaaat difficult, they're just uncompromising and they punish mistakes. I find that phrasing interesting, as I would consider punishing mistakes part of being difficult, since I'm terrible at execution. (Not saying any particular game should accommodate me, of course.)

dkersten 5y ago
Well, what I meant by that is that in FROM games, even the weakest enemy can kill you if you're complacent, but beating or avoiding said enemy is incredibly easy. I've watched a ton of beginners to FROM games play Bloodborne on streams and there are a few common trends I noticed. For example, players often tend to rush into an area without first observing what's actually there. They get punished for this by getting ambushed or surrounded or whatever. Its not that the area is hard, but the player gets punished for the mistake of rushing in without first taking a good look around. Players also rarely look up... and FROM games love to hide enemies above you. Another mistake I saw a lot is that players see something that looks scary, get scared and back away. Or they get hit, panic, and back away. But instead of just backing away enough to get out of range of the enemy and then stopping, they continue to back away... right into another group of enemies. They get punished for this mistake. Actually, panic was a major cause of death. Consider also that you can basically run through any region or level without engaging in any enemy, all it takes is some understanding of the required spacing and to not be afraid of them. Yet the first time I go through an area, I certainly fear the danger the enemies represent. So the regions aren't actually all that hard, when you really look at it. The enemies also tend to hit hard, especially bosses. So its harder to just shrug off an attack and brute force your way through. You often have to take a step back and take some time to learn the attack patterns, the openings, etc. Not that there aren't some truly hard situations or bosses, where even these things are taken to the extreme, because there certainly are, but most of these tend to be optional. Although admittedly there are a few throughout the series that aren't, so I'm definitely not claiming the games are easy. Because they are not.
- oneoff786 5y ago
  I think nobody cares about those. Levels with enemies tend not to be that hard at any point in the game. Surprise enemy ambushes are funny. Dying can be fun. Nobody ever feels like they hit a wall on the levels. It’s the bosses that frustrate people. They break a lot of norms and falsely make people think it’s a stats problem. My issue with dark souls is that it encourages high variance play styles if you’re not good. Biggest weapon, dodge around and hit the boss in just a few spurts. Allows you to succeed if you suck but does nothing to really improve your skills given enough tries. Sekiro was much better. It forced you to get competent to succeed. Many bosses were serious inflection points in difficulty and you just felt so much cooler when you nailed it.
  - dkersten 5y ago
    Most of bosses can be almost trivialised through coop summoning, at least.

by mook 5y ago

dkersten 5y ago

Well, what I meant by that is that in FROM games, even the weakest enemy can kill you if you're complacent, but beating or avoiding said enemy is incredibly easy. I've watched a ton of beginners to FROM games play Bloodborne on streams and there are a few common trends I noticed. For example, players often tend to rush into an area without first observing what's actually there. They get punished for this by getting ambushed or surrounded or whatever. Its not that the area is hard, but the player gets punished for the mistake of rushing in without first taking a good look around. Players also rarely look up... and FROM games love to hide enemies above you. Another mistake I saw a lot is that players see something that looks scary, get scared and back away. Or they get hit, panic, and back away. But instead of just backing away enough to get out of range of the enemy and then stopping, they continue to back away... right into another group of enemies. They get punished for this mistake. Actually, panic was a major cause of death. Consider also that you can basically run through any region or level without engaging in any enemy, all it takes is some understanding of the required spacing and to not be afraid of them. Yet the first time I go through an area, I certainly fear the danger the enemies represent. So the regions aren't actually all that hard, when you really look at it. The enemies also tend to hit hard, especially bosses. So its harder to just shrug off an attack and brute force your way through. You often have to take a step back and take some time to learn the attack patterns, the openings, etc. Not that there aren't some truly hard situations or bosses, where even these things are taken to the extreme, because there certainly are, but most of these tend to be optional. Although admittedly there are a few throughout the series that aren't, so I'm definitely not claiming the games are easy. Because they are not.

oneoff786 5y ago
I think nobody cares about those. Levels with enemies tend not to be that hard at any point in the game. Surprise enemy ambushes are funny. Dying can be fun. Nobody ever feels like they hit a wall on the levels. It’s the bosses that frustrate people. They break a lot of norms and falsely make people think it’s a stats problem. My issue with dark souls is that it encourages high variance play styles if you’re not good. Biggest weapon, dodge around and hit the boss in just a few spurts. Allows you to succeed if you suck but does nothing to really improve your skills given enough tries. Sekiro was much better. It forced you to get competent to succeed. Many bosses were serious inflection points in difficulty and you just felt so much cooler when you nailed it.
- dkersten 5y ago
  Most of bosses can be almost trivialised through coop summoning, at least.