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> Macron moved down the compulsory school age start from 6 (primary school) down to 3 (kindergarten). There’s a bit more to the story than you may think here..

> Macron moved down the compulsory school age start from 6 (primary school) down to 3 (kindergarten). There’s a bit more to the story than you may think here... you also aren’t allowed to be homeschooled. It’s illegal. They ban religious practices for minors (wearing hijabs, for instance). Some people are took that as directed at Muslim community — https://m.timesofindia.com/world/europe/france-passes-anti-radicalism-bill-that-worries-muslims/articleshow/81029766.cms https://m.timesofindia.com/world/europe/france-passes-anti-r... Also giving you children to the state to be taught is somewhat disturbing. EDIT: By deferring to others to teach your children, they won’t learn your culture, traditions and will (statistically) be worse off than if you teach them yourself. My wife and I settled on making less money (still more than enough), but raising our kids ourselves. It’s hard, but easily the most rewarding thing. Plus our kids are WAY ahead in most areas. Imagine, your children are learning from other children all day at school... is that better than learning from adults all day? No. When they get older we will probably consider a “pod” or one teacher for 6-8 kids with a family we know. You can pay the teacher far more and the parents can be more involved (we can effectively dictate the curriculum). I’m also planning on having my kids help me with work by 8-10. They can learn to participate and be productive far earlier.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
> will (statistically) be worse off than if you teach them yourself This has not been determined. Homeschooling is correlated with better outcomes, but I'm quite certain causality has not been established here.
- lettergram 5y ago
  We have plenty of evidence supporting the fewer kids per teacher the better the scores. I also suspect the more a teacher cares the better the scores. As mentioned, from the evidence, there’s already a solid correlation. I think with the additional details the causation is likely also there (less students per teacher, highly motivated and engaged teacher). Anyone debating that point IMO is intentionally misleading. There is a clear causation between homeschooling and better outcomes. The only “question” I’ve seen in articles (none in reality) has to do with socioeconomic status. However, if you control for that, you’ll still see better outcomes (aka homeschooled kids in socioeconomic category Y will still out perform public school kids in socioeconomic category Y)
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    > Anyone debating that point IMO is intentionally misleading. No need to poison the well with unfounded accusations of bad faith. > There is a clear causation between homeschooling and better outcomes. As I've said, causality has not been established. Even if we stipulate that smaller class sizes have a causal positive effect, it's nowhere near enough to account for the improvement in scores when home schooling. Selection effects are most likely to dominate, as they do in almost all education research.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    Home-schooling isn't solely positive, it is also associated with worse outcomes in STEM. This is not surprising as most home schoolers don't got enough STEM knowledge to properly teach the subject. The net benefit you tend to see comes when you average all grades, since STEM is a fairly small portion the net is still positive, but you still see a significant decrease in STEM ability in home-schooled kids https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/the-homeschool-math-gap/ https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/the-homeschool-math-gap...
yodsanklai 5y ago
> There’s a bit more to the story than you may think here... you also aren’t allowed to be homeschooled. It’s illegal. I believe this isn't correct. Homeschooling is legal in France, although restricted. You need to be able to prove your kids are receiving a proper education. https://www.parentconcept.com/french-home-education-law https://www.parentconcept.com/french-home-education-law > They ban religious practices for minors (wearing hijabs, for instance). I also think this is incorrect. Religious signs are forbidden in public school for students and teachers alike (as France is a secular country), but there's no law preventing minors practicing religion.
- tsol 5y ago
  >Religious signs are forbidden in public school for students and teachers alike (as France is a secular country), but there's no law preventing minors practicing religion. If you call a religiously important piece of clothing a "religious sign" then technically that's true, but not really
- afroboy 5y ago
  > (as France is a secular country) secular mean No religion in politics that doesn't mean forcing your views how to wear your clothes on everyone.
  - yodsanklai 5y ago
    French view is that religion has no place in school or public administration. There's a clear separation between religion and state, including public schools. That being said, the government has no matter to forcing spiritual beliefs or clothes in private space.
- lettergram 5y ago
  Ah fair. perhaps I was thinking Germany (where your child can be removed). France still has regular inspections, can be denied and you have a curriculum you must adhere to (at least tests / categories).
cyberpunk 5y ago
Homeschooling is a super american thing and tbh, should not be allowed. If you're so scared of your children ever interacting with anyone apart from you, you probably shouldn't be a parent.
- xdennis 5y ago
  The Americans value freedom more. As far as I know, only western Europe considers children as belonging to the state, not the parents. Many Romanians who moved to places like Norway were shocked to see how children are treated there. In Sweden they have banks of the blood of all the babies since 1975 in storage forever ( https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKU-registret https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKU-registret ). Scary stuff.
  - AnnikaL 5y ago
    The PKU-registry article you linked explains how one can opt out of having one's sample stored after the genetic screening: > Den enskilde kan begära att begränsa hur provet får användas eller få sitt blodprov kasserat. Kassering innebär enligt biobankslagen att provet kastas eller anonymiseras > The individual can ask to restrict how the sample may be used or have it discarded. According to the biobank law, discarding a sample involves either destroying or anonymizing it.
  - cyberpunk 5y ago
    What about the freedom you're denying your child by excluding them from social interactions due to your mistaken puritanical attempts to 'protect' them by home schooling? I mean, there is no justification. You're actually harming your child. Sure, maybe you're a better maths teacher than the one in the school, but school isn't really about learning such nonsense..
- impostergc 5y ago
  Non-homeschooling is probably one of the more recent developments in education in modern times, but yes, it must be this "super american thing" that can't be allowed. God forbid parents have a say in how their children are being raised.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

> will (statistically) be worse off than if you teach them yourself This has not been determined. Homeschooling is correlated with better outcomes, but I'm quite certain causality has not been established here.

lettergram 5y ago
We have plenty of evidence supporting the fewer kids per teacher the better the scores. I also suspect the more a teacher cares the better the scores. As mentioned, from the evidence, there’s already a solid correlation. I think with the additional details the causation is likely also there (less students per teacher, highly motivated and engaged teacher). Anyone debating that point IMO is intentionally misleading. There is a clear causation between homeschooling and better outcomes. The only “question” I’ve seen in articles (none in reality) has to do with socioeconomic status. However, if you control for that, you’ll still see better outcomes (aka homeschooled kids in socioeconomic category Y will still out perform public school kids in socioeconomic category Y)
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  > Anyone debating that point IMO is intentionally misleading. No need to poison the well with unfounded accusations of bad faith. > There is a clear causation between homeschooling and better outcomes. As I've said, causality has not been established. Even if we stipulate that smaller class sizes have a causal positive effect, it's nowhere near enough to account for the improvement in scores when home schooling. Selection effects are most likely to dominate, as they do in almost all education research.
- Jensson 5y ago
  Home-schooling isn't solely positive, it is also associated with worse outcomes in STEM. This is not surprising as most home schoolers don't got enough STEM knowledge to properly teach the subject. The net benefit you tend to see comes when you average all grades, since STEM is a fairly small portion the net is still positive, but you still see a significant decrease in STEM ability in home-schooled kids https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/the-homeschool-math-gap/ https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/the-homeschool-math-gap...

yodsanklai 5y ago

> There’s a bit more to the story than you may think here... you also aren’t allowed to be homeschooled. It’s illegal. I believe this isn't correct. Homeschooling is legal in France, although restricted. You need to be able to prove your kids are receiving a proper education. https://www.parentconcept.com/french-home-education-law https://www.parentconcept.com/french-home-education-law > They ban religious practices for minors (wearing hijabs, for instance). I also think this is incorrect. Religious signs are forbidden in public school for students and teachers alike (as France is a secular country), but there's no law preventing minors practicing religion.

tsol 5y ago
>Religious signs are forbidden in public school for students and teachers alike (as France is a secular country), but there's no law preventing minors practicing religion. If you call a religiously important piece of clothing a "religious sign" then technically that's true, but not really
afroboy 5y ago
> (as France is a secular country) secular mean No religion in politics that doesn't mean forcing your views how to wear your clothes on everyone.
- yodsanklai 5y ago
  French view is that religion has no place in school or public administration. There's a clear separation between religion and state, including public schools. That being said, the government has no matter to forcing spiritual beliefs or clothes in private space.
lettergram 5y ago
Ah fair. perhaps I was thinking Germany (where your child can be removed). France still has regular inspections, can be denied and you have a curriculum you must adhere to (at least tests / categories).

cyberpunk 5y ago

Homeschooling is a super american thing and tbh, should not be allowed. If you're so scared of your children ever interacting with anyone apart from you, you probably shouldn't be a parent.

xdennis 5y ago
The Americans value freedom more. As far as I know, only western Europe considers children as belonging to the state, not the parents. Many Romanians who moved to places like Norway were shocked to see how children are treated there. In Sweden they have banks of the blood of all the babies since 1975 in storage forever ( https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKU-registret https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKU-registret ). Scary stuff.
- AnnikaL 5y ago
  The PKU-registry article you linked explains how one can opt out of having one's sample stored after the genetic screening: > Den enskilde kan begära att begränsa hur provet får användas eller få sitt blodprov kasserat. Kassering innebär enligt biobankslagen att provet kastas eller anonymiseras > The individual can ask to restrict how the sample may be used or have it discarded. According to the biobank law, discarding a sample involves either destroying or anonymizing it.
- cyberpunk 5y ago
  What about the freedom you're denying your child by excluding them from social interactions due to your mistaken puritanical attempts to 'protect' them by home schooling? I mean, there is no justification. You're actually harming your child. Sure, maybe you're a better maths teacher than the one in the school, but school isn't really about learning such nonsense..
impostergc 5y ago
Non-homeschooling is probably one of the more recent developments in education in modern times, but yes, it must be this "super american thing" that can't be allowed. God forbid parents have a say in how their children are being raised.