4 ms·

That wouldn't explain why Phoenix and Seattle and Austin and Las Vegas (and other recent-growth cities) lack the amenities of similarly-sized European cities.

bumby 5y ago
For discussion's sake, can you enumerate the amenities you're alluding to? If it's solely in regards to public transit, I think this is largely due to cultural differences. The US still has the remnants of an individualistic frontier mentality. I don't know, but tend to think it's not by coincidence, that the better public transit systems tend to be near the eastern seaboard.
- bradlys 5y ago
  It’s not just public transit. Walkability. Bike paths. High density - potentially mixed use types. No emphasis on lowering noise. Etc. Basically anything you’d normally see in a Not Just Bikes video… It’s not cultural btw. It’s corporational. It’s corporations which are driving these things - which don’t seem to have as significant of a voice in other countries.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Walkability is the fad now. Just like cars replacing streetcars was in the past. In this case one I'm glad to support.
    - cscurmudgeon 5y ago
      As a US immigrant with chronic health issues from walking miles to work in a 3rd world country, cars are a boon for me now.
      - bradlys 5y ago
        I think the idea of walkability isn’t that you spend hours having to walk everyday to do menial tasks. It’s that you’re within very short distances of places.
    - bumby 5y ago
      I am glad to support it as well, but I can also acknowledge a lot of people scoff at it (and bike lanes, for that matter).
  - bumby 5y ago
    Certainly corporations drive some of it. But I do think there's also a cultural element. I've lived all across the US and the places that lack those amenities simply don't want them from my experience. Even when they do get implemented by well-wishing civil servants, they are often openly mocked as a waste of money.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      I wonder - do you think that people always loved cooking with gas as much as they do now? https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54 https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54 A lot of “cultural” things are corporations at work. This is a very small example…
      - bumby 5y ago
        Do you think social media influencers are what drives the selection of gas stoves? That...is a very new take I've never heard. Most people prefer gas stoves because they are better for cooking than electric. They are generally considered better for cooking because they burn hotter than electric. It's been a long time since I've worked in food service, but I can't remember a single kitchen using electric stoves to good with and for good reason. This was when gas was much more expensive than it is now and I doubt the natural gas lobby has much influence on those choices.
        FactolSarin 5y ago
        Gas stoves get hot faster and respond quickly when you turn the dial, that's their big advantage. But electric is hotter. Even plain resistance coil electric elements put out much more heat than gas. Try to boil a pot of water on gas vs electric and it's no contest, electric wins. And of course, modern induction electric elements are better in every way as long as you don't mind throwing out all your cheap alluminum pots
        bumby 5y ago
        >electric is hotter. In what sense? Both have BTU ratings to determine their capacity. Just for kicks, I looked at a few units online at a mid-range price point of about $1500. The gas ones had 18-20 kBTU burners and the electric were around 10 kBTU burners, so the gas has considerably higher output. As you say, gas is basically instantaneous once the flame is present while electric has a lag, so it's going to take longer to get to that capacity for the electric. Maybe your point is that electric transfers heat better? I couldn't find any sources on that. Add to it that the colors of the flame/heating element as a general rule of thumb for temperature, the gas is higher on the temperature spectrum.
- drewcoo 5y ago
  > public transit . . . individualistic frontier mentality A century ago, most American cities had some kind of tram system. And the cities were connected by railroads - actual passenger trains. People were sold the idea of automotive independence. That notion was completely manufactured for our consumption. We didn't have the bureaucracy in place to keep mass transit in place, so when people used it less, it lost money and was largely torn out. Without bureaucracy in place to give people time to think, we're stuck with the swift wisdom of the market. When I lived in Seattle, I was half a block from an old commuter line that's buried in asphalt now. The city just installed "innovative" light rail a few blocks away. Progress! /s https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demise https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demis...
  - bumby 5y ago
    That's the point I was trying to get across. The automobile created fostered an individualistic culture related to transport that is very hard for people to give up. Most cities still have bus routes, but people generally don't want to use them if they can use a car instead.

bumby 5y ago

For discussion's sake, can you enumerate the amenities you're alluding to? If it's solely in regards to public transit, I think this is largely due to cultural differences. The US still has the remnants of an individualistic frontier mentality. I don't know, but tend to think it's not by coincidence, that the better public transit systems tend to be near the eastern seaboard.

bradlys 5y ago
It’s not just public transit. Walkability. Bike paths. High density - potentially mixed use types. No emphasis on lowering noise. Etc. Basically anything you’d normally see in a Not Just Bikes video… It’s not cultural btw. It’s corporational. It’s corporations which are driving these things - which don’t seem to have as significant of a voice in other countries.
- bluGill 5y ago
  Walkability is the fad now. Just like cars replacing streetcars was in the past. In this case one I'm glad to support.
  - cscurmudgeon 5y ago
    As a US immigrant with chronic health issues from walking miles to work in a 3rd world country, cars are a boon for me now.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      I think the idea of walkability isn’t that you spend hours having to walk everyday to do menial tasks. It’s that you’re within very short distances of places.
  - bumby 5y ago
    I am glad to support it as well, but I can also acknowledge a lot of people scoff at it (and bike lanes, for that matter).
- bumby 5y ago
  Certainly corporations drive some of it. But I do think there's also a cultural element. I've lived all across the US and the places that lack those amenities simply don't want them from my experience. Even when they do get implemented by well-wishing civil servants, they are often openly mocked as a waste of money.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    I wonder - do you think that people always loved cooking with gas as much as they do now? https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54 https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54 A lot of “cultural” things are corporations at work. This is a very small example…
    - bumby 5y ago
      Do you think social media influencers are what drives the selection of gas stoves? That...is a very new take I've never heard. Most people prefer gas stoves because they are better for cooking than electric. They are generally considered better for cooking because they burn hotter than electric. It's been a long time since I've worked in food service, but I can't remember a single kitchen using electric stoves to good with and for good reason. This was when gas was much more expensive than it is now and I doubt the natural gas lobby has much influence on those choices.
      - FactolSarin 5y ago
        Gas stoves get hot faster and respond quickly when you turn the dial, that's their big advantage. But electric is hotter. Even plain resistance coil electric elements put out much more heat than gas. Try to boil a pot of water on gas vs electric and it's no contest, electric wins. And of course, modern induction electric elements are better in every way as long as you don't mind throwing out all your cheap alluminum pots
        bumby 5y ago
        >electric is hotter. In what sense? Both have BTU ratings to determine their capacity. Just for kicks, I looked at a few units online at a mid-range price point of about $1500. The gas ones had 18-20 kBTU burners and the electric were around 10 kBTU burners, so the gas has considerably higher output. As you say, gas is basically instantaneous once the flame is present while electric has a lag, so it's going to take longer to get to that capacity for the electric. Maybe your point is that electric transfers heat better? I couldn't find any sources on that. Add to it that the colors of the flame/heating element as a general rule of thumb for temperature, the gas is higher on the temperature spectrum.
drewcoo 5y ago
> public transit . . . individualistic frontier mentality A century ago, most American cities had some kind of tram system. And the cities were connected by railroads - actual passenger trains. People were sold the idea of automotive independence. That notion was completely manufactured for our consumption. We didn't have the bureaucracy in place to keep mass transit in place, so when people used it less, it lost money and was largely torn out. Without bureaucracy in place to give people time to think, we're stuck with the swift wisdom of the market. When I lived in Seattle, I was half a block from an old commuter line that's buried in asphalt now. The city just installed "innovative" light rail a few blocks away. Progress! /s https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demise https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demis...
- bumby 5y ago
  That's the point I was trying to get across. The automobile created fostered an individualistic culture related to transport that is very hard for people to give up. Most cities still have bus routes, but people generally don't want to use them if they can use a car instead.