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One of the most striking things about these photos is the terrible ergonomic situation. The C64 started out ergonomically-bad with its keyboard four inches abov

One of the most striking things about these photos is the terrible ergonomic situation. The C64 started out ergonomically-bad with its keyboard four inches above the surface, and then most of these people are using it on top of a dresser or something, with a tiny screen at a bad angle. I had a much better setup back when I got my C64, but I still blame it for the back and vision problems I have now. It's a far cry from my current standing sit/stand desk with proper office chair and large, bracket-mounted monitor. I used to sit at a wobbly table, wrists at a terrible angle to reach the C64 keyboard, with a 17" CRT screen inches from my face. I'm surprised I didn't end up with brain cancer.

300bps 5y ago
I spent about 12 hours per day on my Commodore 64 and not far off of that on computers today in the software engineering field for several decades. I pay zero attention to ergonomics and have zero problems. Many years ago I was referred on HN to this page and it totally changed my outlook on ergonomics: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html
- freedomben 5y ago
  That's definitely interesting, and I think there is some real merit to it, although I think it's dangerous not to consider ergonomics. A coworker of mine had severe carpal tunnel syndrome and it was visible on scans, so not just in his head. He had a surgery that dremel'ed out some space for his nerves in his wrists and it helped a lot. Thanks for sharing though! Really great info.
  - 300bps 5y ago
    You seem open to it which is good! One thing I would like to clarify - it isn’t “just in your head”. That’s a common misconception. These are long term emotional states that cause real physical changes that show up on scans. Myself, I had an EMG that showed nerve damage as evidenced by a plateauing signal on the ulnar and median nerves. I slept with wrist braces for months. Then someone referred me to this and I’ve needed nothing for many years with taking no precautions. Emotional states can very obviously cause physical changes - it’s why people blush for just one example. Or why people get sick to their stomach when they’re in anxious. This is just a less obvious psychogenic physical manifestation.
    - yesenadam 5y ago
      > Emotional states can very obviously cause physical changes - it’s why people blush for just one example. Or why people get sick to their stomach when they’re in anxious. It might seem obvious, but it's not obvious that the causation doesn't go the other way instead - the physical changes cause the emotional states. This is the James-Lange theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James%E2%80%93Lange_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James%E2%80%93Lange_theory "while most would think the order of emotional experience would be that a person sees a bear, becomes afraid, and runs away, James thought that first the person has a physiological response to the bear, such as trembling, and then becomes afraid and runs. According to James, the physiological response comes first, and it is perceived as an emotion and followed by a reaction." If we fancy some strong emotion, and then try to abstract from our consciousness of it all the feelings of its characteristic bodily symptoms, we find we have nothing left behind, no "mind-stuff" out of which the emotion can be constituted, and that a cold and neutral state of intellectual perception is all that remains. ...What kind of an emotion of fear would be left, if the feelings neither of quickened heart-beats nor of shallow breathing, neither of trembling lips nor of weakened limbs, neither of goose-flesh nor of visceral stirrings, were present, it is quite impossible to think. Can one fancy the state of rage and picture no ebullition of it in the chest, no flushing of the face, no dilatation of the nostrils, no clenching of the teeth, no impulse to vigorous action, but in their stead limp muscles, calm breathing, and a placid face? The present writer, for one, certainly cannot. The rage is as completely evaporated as the sensation of its so-called manifestations. - William James, What is an Emotion?, 1884 https://emotion.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1353/2020/11/James_1884_What_is_an_Emotion.pdf https://emotion.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1353/2020/...
    - freedomben 5y ago
      Ah yes, excellent point about blushing! That illustrates the possibility quite well.
freedomben 5y ago
It really is remarkable how much knowledge/awareness we have now of ergonomics. I developed carpal tunnel syndrome in my 20s because of kinked wrists. Fortunately I was able to avoid surgery by wearing corrective braces for a few months, and now my brain just holds my wrists straight now when I type. It was a really scary time though to think that I might not be able to use a keyboard when my work is all computer-based.

300bps 5y ago

I spent about 12 hours per day on my Commodore 64 and not far off of that on computers today in the software engineering field for several decades. I pay zero attention to ergonomics and have zero problems. Many years ago I was referred on HN to this page and it totally changed my outlook on ergonomics: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html

freedomben 5y ago
That's definitely interesting, and I think there is some real merit to it, although I think it's dangerous not to consider ergonomics. A coworker of mine had severe carpal tunnel syndrome and it was visible on scans, so not just in his head. He had a surgery that dremel'ed out some space for his nerves in his wrists and it helped a lot. Thanks for sharing though! Really great info.
- 300bps 5y ago
  You seem open to it which is good! One thing I would like to clarify - it isn’t “just in your head”. That’s a common misconception. These are long term emotional states that cause real physical changes that show up on scans. Myself, I had an EMG that showed nerve damage as evidenced by a plateauing signal on the ulnar and median nerves. I slept with wrist braces for months. Then someone referred me to this and I’ve needed nothing for many years with taking no precautions. Emotional states can very obviously cause physical changes - it’s why people blush for just one example. Or why people get sick to their stomach when they’re in anxious. This is just a less obvious psychogenic physical manifestation.
  - yesenadam 5y ago
    > Emotional states can very obviously cause physical changes - it’s why people blush for just one example. Or why people get sick to their stomach when they’re in anxious. It might seem obvious, but it's not obvious that the causation doesn't go the other way instead - the physical changes cause the emotional states. This is the James-Lange theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James%E2%80%93Lange_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James%E2%80%93Lange_theory "while most would think the order of emotional experience would be that a person sees a bear, becomes afraid, and runs away, James thought that first the person has a physiological response to the bear, such as trembling, and then becomes afraid and runs. According to James, the physiological response comes first, and it is perceived as an emotion and followed by a reaction." If we fancy some strong emotion, and then try to abstract from our consciousness of it all the feelings of its characteristic bodily symptoms, we find we have nothing left behind, no "mind-stuff" out of which the emotion can be constituted, and that a cold and neutral state of intellectual perception is all that remains. ...What kind of an emotion of fear would be left, if the feelings neither of quickened heart-beats nor of shallow breathing, neither of trembling lips nor of weakened limbs, neither of goose-flesh nor of visceral stirrings, were present, it is quite impossible to think. Can one fancy the state of rage and picture no ebullition of it in the chest, no flushing of the face, no dilatation of the nostrils, no clenching of the teeth, no impulse to vigorous action, but in their stead limp muscles, calm breathing, and a placid face? The present writer, for one, certainly cannot. The rage is as completely evaporated as the sensation of its so-called manifestations. - William James, What is an Emotion?, 1884 https://emotion.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1353/2020/11/James_1884_What_is_an_Emotion.pdf https://emotion.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1353/2020/...
  - freedomben 5y ago
    Ah yes, excellent point about blushing! That illustrates the possibility quite well.

freedomben 5y ago

It really is remarkable how much knowledge/awareness we have now of ergonomics. I developed carpal tunnel syndrome in my 20s because of kinked wrists. Fortunately I was able to avoid surgery by wearing corrective braces for a few months, and now my brain just holds my wrists straight now when I type. It was a really scary time though to think that I might not be able to use a keyboard when my work is all computer-based.