5 ms·

Which is nonsense, what was the purpose of punitive action (jail) when a person will be punished for the rest if their life via stigma and ineligibility for job

Which is nonsense, what was the purpose of punitive action (jail) when a person will be punished for the rest if their life via stigma and ineligibility for jobs. How is that “correcting” a persons behavior?

hedora 5y ago
It makes sure you never stop correcting them. Once a customer of the penal system, always a customer. They've worked hard to get their retention / repeat business numbers up this high. Why take that away from them?
mbreese 5y ago
The punishment isn’t only a punishment for the individual. It’s a deterrent to keep the next person from doing whatever it was that was illegal. You can argue if that’s right or wrong, but that’s one of the points of many sentences — to send a “message” to others who might commit a crime.
- akerl_ 5y ago
  “Don’t do crime, but if you do, I guess keep doing crimes forever because we’re going to make it hard for you to get a real job” isn’t really a compelling strategy.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    That's the business model of the prison industrial complex.
    - akerl_ 5y ago
      Let’s be clear where the blame sits. The “prison industrial complex” isn’t creating this. Private enterprise is set up to profit from incarceration rates and thus recidivism, but the reason that people can’t get jobs after they finish their sentence is the fault of all of us. Every company that refuses to hire somebody with a record is contributing to the problem, as is every person who looks down on somebody for having been incarcerated.
      - lupire 5y ago
        If there are fewer jobs than people, some people will not have jobs and theus be tempted into criminal behavior. If there are more jobs than people, felons will be hired.
        akerl_ 5y ago
        This is pretty intensely reductive of the actual state of the world. It only works if all people are competing for all jobs, which they are not. To pick a boring example, see the multitude of companies complaining about labor shortages and also the number of felons who are struggling to find jobs.
  - lobocinza 5y ago
    It's optimized for retention and not for reintegration.
- MereInterest 5y ago
  We could also argue whether it is effective or ineffective. I understand the incentive being introduced, to tip the scales in a rational decision-making process against a criminal act. However, that assumes that criminal acts are the result of a rational decision-making process, and that the possibility of punishment is high enough to enter into that process. Given the recidivism rate of the US, I don't think it is effective. You can argue whether a punitive system that effectively provides a deterrent is right or wrong, but a punitive system that isn't effective as a deterrent cannot make the same argument.

hedora 5y ago

It makes sure you never stop correcting them. Once a customer of the penal system, always a customer. They've worked hard to get their retention / repeat business numbers up this high. Why take that away from them?

mbreese 5y ago

The punishment isn’t only a punishment for the individual. It’s a deterrent to keep the next person from doing whatever it was that was illegal. You can argue if that’s right or wrong, but that’s one of the points of many sentences — to send a “message” to others who might commit a crime.

akerl_ 5y ago
“Don’t do crime, but if you do, I guess keep doing crimes forever because we’re going to make it hard for you to get a real job” isn’t really a compelling strategy.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  That's the business model of the prison industrial complex.
  - akerl_ 5y ago
    Let’s be clear where the blame sits. The “prison industrial complex” isn’t creating this. Private enterprise is set up to profit from incarceration rates and thus recidivism, but the reason that people can’t get jobs after they finish their sentence is the fault of all of us. Every company that refuses to hire somebody with a record is contributing to the problem, as is every person who looks down on somebody for having been incarcerated.
    - lupire 5y ago
      If there are fewer jobs than people, some people will not have jobs and theus be tempted into criminal behavior. If there are more jobs than people, felons will be hired.
      - akerl_ 5y ago
        This is pretty intensely reductive of the actual state of the world. It only works if all people are competing for all jobs, which they are not. To pick a boring example, see the multitude of companies complaining about labor shortages and also the number of felons who are struggling to find jobs.
- lobocinza 5y ago
  It's optimized for retention and not for reintegration.
MereInterest 5y ago
We could also argue whether it is effective or ineffective. I understand the incentive being introduced, to tip the scales in a rational decision-making process against a criminal act. However, that assumes that criminal acts are the result of a rational decision-making process, and that the possibility of punishment is high enough to enter into that process. Given the recidivism rate of the US, I don't think it is effective. You can argue whether a punitive system that effectively provides a deterrent is right or wrong, but a punitive system that isn't effective as a deterrent cannot make the same argument.