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But if all of these vaccines aren't enough, "getting it eventually" doesn't mean you won't just get it again later. It's just a different form of immunity, a na

But if all of these vaccines aren't enough, "getting it eventually" doesn't mean you won't just get it again later. It's just a different form of immunity, a nasty enough mutation will still bypass it. That's not to suggest no risks should ever be taken, but if going to the office in person is really basically pointless that's a very unnecessary risk on top of the inconvenience of it. May as well delay getting it as long as possible since it's constantly changing right?

tluyben2 5y ago
That is the same for any disease spreading that way like the flu right? I do not want to get the flu either (I never had it badly; worst I had anything, including mono, was a mild cold. Oh and cancer, mild as well luckily, but I mean viruses). So why did we ever go to an office? Or school? I got my uni degrees and the tail of high school almost without ever going to classes. I studied and now work (for the past 30 years) in coffee shops and bars (sitting outside, always, even in winter) and have a rich social life because of it; I don’t and never did understand this forced cattle herding of people. And then even some people seem to enjoy it.
- neltnerb 5y ago
  I think you are asking a very important and useful question, and one which seems like it could be a significant part of the conversation about climate change too... I think we know roughly why K-12 schools are like they are -- teachers didn't know how to use computers much at all in the 90s when I was a kid and it's a running gag that they never really understood them. Now they do, so it's a new option that I think it's fair to recognize truly is new. I do work in education and spent a ton of time figuring out how to make video lectures for instructors in the department that were effective, and tons of new online teaching tools were tested that there was never a huge push to play with before. I don't think it's malice, it's simply that those professors have been doing it one way for 30 years and asking them to learn to do it a whole new way is a big ask. They have to spend all their time writing grants and other bureaucracy, mentoring students, and from personal experience I think it's fair to say that there is little appetite for changing everything to something no one knows how to judge the quality of due to lack of experience in an active classroom. It is the software equivalent of pushing a change straight to a live server, except in this case if you screw it up and do a bad job you're impacting the quality of education being provided to at least dozens of students who deserve better. It's really hard to just in-place make a change without the ability to actually test it. I hope more people get something closer to your experience, I think the last few years have pushed a lot of people on that education side into a much more open mindset now that online classes are less risky. I think it does serve a purpose to have high school kids in person because of social things and the reality that a group of 20 kids will on average do a better job of finishing stuff they aren't really excited to do whereas one kid remotely is more likely to slip through the cracks. There's also issues with equity when internet and computers and space to learn aren't uniformly available. But I think you're asking the right question. Let's get cars off roads and turn these stupid commercial parks into residential areas please, we need more affordable housing, not redundant space for people to work in when they're not at home... and the climate control for these giant unnecessary buildings... heck, the parking lots alone are a huge net negative especially if you account for the reality that many many fewer people really need to visit those buildings on any given day.
scarface74 5y ago
So how long are you willing not to live your life normally? Since being vaccinated in March of last year, we have been on three vacations (see another reply). I’ve also been on four business trips where we were all inside and maskless - 3 internal meetings and one customer meeting. I have two more internal meetings/trips coming up by the end of the month. While I e hot working remotely, face to face time makes a huge difference and at least meeting your coworkers and customers occasionally. I work in the cloud consulting department at BigTech.
- neltnerb 5y ago
  If seeing people face to face at the office is beneficial to you go for it. It is often beneficial to me as well, I've been full time back in the office since last August. It is often the case that going to the office is literally counterproductive, I get less work done, and I have to commute. Working at home is more comfortable, and far better for 60% of what I do. If I also get the benefit of reduced risk of getting COVID for not doing something that I didn't want to do anyway and which was not helping anyone including myself... well, if you consider that "not living life normally" I kind of prefer the new normal. edit: for reference, I am immunocompromised yet still somehow capable of seeing balance in the risks I take (especially the unnecessary ones) instead of jumping to binary "live life normally" or not because life is never going to be fully "normal" for me. If I'm taking risks with my health I want them to be for a reason that actually matters at all.
  - scarface74 5y ago
    Does that mean you will never get on a plane again? Go to a restaurant? Go to a concert? Never go inside an office even just once a quarter to spend time with your coworkers?
    - neltnerb 5y ago
      I already said I am back in the office full time, go to restaurants sometimes, have flown on planes, have gone to a concert, and am immunocompromised to boot. Argue with someone else if you're going to make up a position for me to defend instead of reading my comment. Your argument style is indistinguishable from an antivax bot.

tluyben2 5y ago

That is the same for any disease spreading that way like the flu right? I do not want to get the flu either (I never had it badly; worst I had anything, including mono, was a mild cold. Oh and cancer, mild as well luckily, but I mean viruses). So why did we ever go to an office? Or school? I got my uni degrees and the tail of high school almost without ever going to classes. I studied and now work (for the past 30 years) in coffee shops and bars (sitting outside, always, even in winter) and have a rich social life because of it; I don’t and never did understand this forced cattle herding of people. And then even some people seem to enjoy it.

neltnerb 5y ago
I think you are asking a very important and useful question, and one which seems like it could be a significant part of the conversation about climate change too... I think we know roughly why K-12 schools are like they are -- teachers didn't know how to use computers much at all in the 90s when I was a kid and it's a running gag that they never really understood them. Now they do, so it's a new option that I think it's fair to recognize truly is new. I do work in education and spent a ton of time figuring out how to make video lectures for instructors in the department that were effective, and tons of new online teaching tools were tested that there was never a huge push to play with before. I don't think it's malice, it's simply that those professors have been doing it one way for 30 years and asking them to learn to do it a whole new way is a big ask. They have to spend all their time writing grants and other bureaucracy, mentoring students, and from personal experience I think it's fair to say that there is little appetite for changing everything to something no one knows how to judge the quality of due to lack of experience in an active classroom. It is the software equivalent of pushing a change straight to a live server, except in this case if you screw it up and do a bad job you're impacting the quality of education being provided to at least dozens of students who deserve better. It's really hard to just in-place make a change without the ability to actually test it. I hope more people get something closer to your experience, I think the last few years have pushed a lot of people on that education side into a much more open mindset now that online classes are less risky. I think it does serve a purpose to have high school kids in person because of social things and the reality that a group of 20 kids will on average do a better job of finishing stuff they aren't really excited to do whereas one kid remotely is more likely to slip through the cracks. There's also issues with equity when internet and computers and space to learn aren't uniformly available. But I think you're asking the right question. Let's get cars off roads and turn these stupid commercial parks into residential areas please, we need more affordable housing, not redundant space for people to work in when they're not at home... and the climate control for these giant unnecessary buildings... heck, the parking lots alone are a huge net negative especially if you account for the reality that many many fewer people really need to visit those buildings on any given day.

scarface74 5y ago

So how long are you willing not to live your life normally? Since being vaccinated in March of last year, we have been on three vacations (see another reply). I’ve also been on four business trips where we were all inside and maskless - 3 internal meetings and one customer meeting. I have two more internal meetings/trips coming up by the end of the month. While I e hot working remotely, face to face time makes a huge difference and at least meeting your coworkers and customers occasionally. I work in the cloud consulting department at BigTech.

neltnerb 5y ago
If seeing people face to face at the office is beneficial to you go for it. It is often beneficial to me as well, I've been full time back in the office since last August. It is often the case that going to the office is literally counterproductive, I get less work done, and I have to commute. Working at home is more comfortable, and far better for 60% of what I do. If I also get the benefit of reduced risk of getting COVID for not doing something that I didn't want to do anyway and which was not helping anyone including myself... well, if you consider that "not living life normally" I kind of prefer the new normal. edit: for reference, I am immunocompromised yet still somehow capable of seeing balance in the risks I take (especially the unnecessary ones) instead of jumping to binary "live life normally" or not because life is never going to be fully "normal" for me. If I'm taking risks with my health I want them to be for a reason that actually matters at all.
- scarface74 5y ago
  Does that mean you will never get on a plane again? Go to a restaurant? Go to a concert? Never go inside an office even just once a quarter to spend time with your coworkers?
  - neltnerb 5y ago
    I already said I am back in the office full time, go to restaurants sometimes, have flown on planes, have gone to a concert, and am immunocompromised to boot. Argue with someone else if you're going to make up a position for me to defend instead of reading my comment. Your argument style is indistinguishable from an antivax bot.