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Please don't spread this kind of propaganda. This is not "Russia's perspective". The only perspective that matters is Putin's and whatever Putin says is gospel.

Please don't spread this kind of propaganda. This is not "Russia's perspective". The only perspective that matters is Putin's and whatever Putin says is gospel. His concern about Ukraine in his own words is it having been taking over by a "nazi-led junta" and other such nonsense. Nazis is the rallying call for the public, not NATO. Also, there are no NATO planes in Ukraine, nor are there NATO drones. There are Turkish Drones, but the only one using those are Turkey's allies, not NATO. Also Russia forced the west's hand here. Russia was slowly invading and taking territory from Ukraine. First in Crimea, then in the Donbass so US and others started providing them with small amounts of aid. Then Russia suddenly invaded again forcing the west's hand against a Hitler-like drumbeat that Putin has caused in Russia.

tsimionescu 5y ago
> nor are there NATO drones. There are Turkish Drones, but the only one using those are Turkey's allies, not NATO. Turkey is a NATO member since 1952, so it's hard to say that Turkish drones are not NATO drones, while still accepting that Ukraine is using other NATO weapons. I agree with most of your other points here. There are some quiblles to be touched on related to exactly who was first to escalate things in Ukraine (Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador discussing who they want to replace Yankovich a good two weeks before the people forced him out does suggest that the orange revolution that preceded the 2014 invasion wasn't 100% homebrewed), but yes, this is mostly a problem of Russia's own making.
vogre 5y ago
>Also, there are no NATO planes in Ukraine, nor are there NATO drones That's not true https://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/us-intelligence-ukraine-russia/ https://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/us-intelligence-ukraine-...
- krisoft 5y ago
  That is a nice article. Which part of it supports that there are NATO planes in Ukraine?
roenxi 5y ago
> Nazis is the rallying call for the public, not NATO. Unless the Spectator [0] is lying to me, NATO came up in the first & second paragraph of the war declaration. Nazis turn up a lot later. And one disadvantages the west has in containing Russian propaganda about NATO expansion is that the Russians are being truthful. NATO expansion is being done to target Russia and make them less safe. [0] https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/full-text-putin-s-declaration-of-war-on-ukraine https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/full-text-putin-s-declar...
- gattilorenz 5y ago
  Being truthful in the sense that yes, sure, more countries are joining NATO. But that's the same countries that used to be under the USSR sphere of influence, that Russia didn't manage to attract after 1991 (remember the Commonwealth of Independent States?), and that are now voluntarily choosing to join NATO, presumably because Russia is a scary neighbor to have (Crimea and all). Just to cross some t's and dot some i's...
- notahacker 5y ago
  A nuclear power being "less safe" from an entity whose recent activity consists mostly of ignominious withdrawals from conflicts does tend to stretch credulity. Countries on Russia's borders aspire to join NATO because Russia has a habit of marching its armies into them to annex territory or back one faction or another, not the other way round. One thing which disadvantages the West is that some of same people who rightly dismissed the "pre-emptive self defence" arguments for Western regime change in Iraq fall over themselves to argue that of all the many propaganda arguments Russia has put forward for invading Ukraine including literal statements of imperial ambition as well as "chemical weapons", "Nazis" and NATO, the self-defence arguments make sense.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    > ignominious withdrawals from conflicts Given that as far as I can recall, 0 NATO countries have been invaded in the history of NATO that leaves open the question - how did they get in to the conflict that they withdrew from? Given the US's application of best-defence-good-offence in the last 30 years, it is easy to see that Russia should be nervous.

tsimionescu 5y ago

> nor are there NATO drones. There are Turkish Drones, but the only one using those are Turkey's allies, not NATO. Turkey is a NATO member since 1952, so it's hard to say that Turkish drones are not NATO drones, while still accepting that Ukraine is using other NATO weapons. I agree with most of your other points here. There are some quiblles to be touched on related to exactly who was first to escalate things in Ukraine (Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador discussing who they want to replace Yankovich a good two weeks before the people forced him out does suggest that the orange revolution that preceded the 2014 invasion wasn't 100% homebrewed), but yes, this is mostly a problem of Russia's own making.

vogre 5y ago

>Also, there are no NATO planes in Ukraine, nor are there NATO drones That's not true https://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/us-intelligence-ukraine-russia/ https://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/us-intelligence-ukraine-...

krisoft 5y ago
That is a nice article. Which part of it supports that there are NATO planes in Ukraine?

roenxi 5y ago

> Nazis is the rallying call for the public, not NATO. Unless the Spectator [0] is lying to me, NATO came up in the first & second paragraph of the war declaration. Nazis turn up a lot later. And one disadvantages the west has in containing Russian propaganda about NATO expansion is that the Russians are being truthful. NATO expansion is being done to target Russia and make them less safe. [0] https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/full-text-putin-s-declaration-of-war-on-ukraine https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/full-text-putin-s-declar...

gattilorenz 5y ago
Being truthful in the sense that yes, sure, more countries are joining NATO. But that's the same countries that used to be under the USSR sphere of influence, that Russia didn't manage to attract after 1991 (remember the Commonwealth of Independent States?), and that are now voluntarily choosing to join NATO, presumably because Russia is a scary neighbor to have (Crimea and all). Just to cross some t's and dot some i's...
notahacker 5y ago
A nuclear power being "less safe" from an entity whose recent activity consists mostly of ignominious withdrawals from conflicts does tend to stretch credulity. Countries on Russia's borders aspire to join NATO because Russia has a habit of marching its armies into them to annex territory or back one faction or another, not the other way round. One thing which disadvantages the West is that some of same people who rightly dismissed the "pre-emptive self defence" arguments for Western regime change in Iraq fall over themselves to argue that of all the many propaganda arguments Russia has put forward for invading Ukraine including literal statements of imperial ambition as well as "chemical weapons", "Nazis" and NATO, the self-defence arguments make sense.
- roenxi 5y ago
  > ignominious withdrawals from conflicts Given that as far as I can recall, 0 NATO countries have been invaded in the history of NATO that leaves open the question - how did they get in to the conflict that they withdrew from? Given the US's application of best-defence-good-offence in the last 30 years, it is easy to see that Russia should be nervous.