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Stop equating crypto with stocks please. Stocks represent ownership so just by that virtue, it has intrinsic value.

by anon2020dot00 5y ago

randomhodler84 5y ago
Stocks are equity over a corporation. Sats are equity over the wealth of the planet.
cellis 5y ago
Stocks "represent ownership", is such fiction I don't even know where to start. If you really believe this, I'd like to sell you 49% ownership in my next venture! I of course have 10x voting rights and can issue more shares whenever I'd like ('oh but why would you do that? Won't that depress the value of your stock too?' 1. Not really because of crazy structures of the banks that underwrite these issuances, and 2. Because fuck you, that's why! I want more money and I can use any number of excuses to dilute you, like: "the capital constraints of our business necessitated these extreme measures" ), I can flex on my employees by giving them all kinds of triggers and contractual ways to screw them. Sigh. No. Stocks today (as in those that are traded on NYSE, etc ) don't "represent ownership" to the average person. They represent an idea, a way of saying, "This company will be worth more in the future than today".
- qgin 5y ago
  Stocks have value because of dividends (or for stocks that don’t yet pay dividends, the likelihood that one day they will pay dividends). But ultimately, it is a bet on actual cash transfers from the profits of the business to your own pockets. All share price appreciation comes from bets (maybe far removed in time) on future dividend payments. Most crypto has no basis for value like this. Tokens based on proof of stake or utility tokens do, but Bitcoin is pure speculation on future speculation.
  - pavlov 5y ago
    Importantly, stocks represent cash flows. Even stocks that don’t pay dividends can benefit from cash flows in the form of stock buybacks. Many big tech companies like Meta don’t pay dividends but do spend tens of billions on buybacks. When a company buys its own stock, the value of the remaining shares appreciates. This is in some ways better than a dividend because you (as a shareholder) don’t need to pay tax on the cash distribution. Many crypto proponents just don’t seem to understand how shares work and tokens don’t.
  - cellis 5y ago
    If I have 100% control over the issuance of said stock, you don’t really “own” anything. Whether you benefit in the profits is subject to contracts and my whims.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Stocks represent ownership Stock represents specific rights (which may differ across classes) typically including a claim on assets at dissolution.
azth 5y ago
They're both assets.

Stop equating crypto with stocks please. Stocks represent ownership so just by that virtue, it has intrinsic value.

Stocks are equity over a corporation. Sats are equity over the wealth of the planet.

Stocks "represent ownership", is such fiction I don't even know where to start. If you really believe this, I'd like to sell you 49% ownership in my next venture! I of course have 10x voting rights and can issue more shares whenever I'd like ('oh but why would you do that? Won't that depress the value of your stock too?' 1. Not really because of crazy structures of the banks that underwrite these issuances, and 2. Because fuck you, that's why! I want more money and I can use any number of excuses to dilute you, like: "the capital constraints of our business necessitated these extreme measures" ), I can flex on my employees by giving them all kinds of triggers and contractual ways to screw them. Sigh. No. Stocks today (as in those that are traded on NYSE, etc ) don't "represent ownership" to the average person. They represent an idea, a way of saying, "This company will be worth more in the future than today".

qgin 5y ago
Stocks have value because of dividends (or for stocks that don’t yet pay dividends, the likelihood that one day they will pay dividends). But ultimately, it is a bet on actual cash transfers from the profits of the business to your own pockets. All share price appreciation comes from bets (maybe far removed in time) on future dividend payments. Most crypto has no basis for value like this. Tokens based on proof of stake or utility tokens do, but Bitcoin is pure speculation on future speculation.
- pavlov 5y ago
  Importantly, stocks represent cash flows. Even stocks that don’t pay dividends can benefit from cash flows in the form of stock buybacks. Many big tech companies like Meta don’t pay dividends but do spend tens of billions on buybacks. When a company buys its own stock, the value of the remaining shares appreciates. This is in some ways better than a dividend because you (as a shareholder) don’t need to pay tax on the cash distribution. Many crypto proponents just don’t seem to understand how shares work and tokens don’t.
- cellis 5y ago
  If I have 100% control over the issuance of said stock, you don’t really “own” anything. Whether you benefit in the profits is subject to contracts and my whims.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Stocks represent ownership Stock represents specific rights (which may differ across classes) typically including a claim on assets at dissolution.

azth 5y ago

They're both assets.