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It's incredible to me that EV enthusiasts are such zealots they refuse to take into account the facts around practicality, pollution and fire risk, just choosin

It's incredible to me that EV enthusiasts are such zealots they refuse to take into account the facts around practicality, pollution and fire risk, just choosing to downvote instead. A demonstration of a gasoline vs battery fire https://youtu.be/tuVxwmnhqP4 https://youtu.be/tuVxwmnhqP4

kube-system 5y ago
That's a demonstration of a $99 harbor freight flux core welder, not a "battery fire" This is a EV fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdaFk3w6rUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdaFk3w6rUY And this is a diesel school bus on fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nPrUdP_POg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nPrUdP_POg If any vehicle catches on fire, you have to leave the vehicle, or risk death. There is no "safe fire"
- olivermarks 5y ago
  Again, I suggest you digest 'Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles - Safety Risks to Emergency Responders' from the US NTSB which is analysis of types of EV vehicle fires. https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k The 220v mig welder example was to demonstrate the different fire characteristics of a trapped/runaway energy battery fire vs gasoline fire. All commercial vehicles such as school buses have a significant fire risk from hydraulic fluids used for brakes, steering etc. Here is is a refuse truck hydraulic fire example https://youtu.be/aj8-JlRqoWc https://youtu.be/aj8-JlRqoWc The dramatic bus fire you found was probably a combination of that and upholstery. Diesel is much less flammable than gasoline, one of the reasons for its use in commercial vehicles. https://www.anl.gov/article/7-things-you-might-not-know-about-diesel https://www.anl.gov/article/7-things-you-might-not-know-abou... Again, a major concern for me is the over reliance on electric door locks in EVs, which have trapped Tesla drivers who then burnt to death in high voltage fires. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-driver-killed-fire-doors-model-s-trial-elon-musk-a9169691.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-driv... Manual locks would be far safer, especially on school bus full of children. I am not opposed to EVs but I do feel there is a very unrealistic utopian view of their strengths while completely ignoring weaknesses, mostly due to massive public relations persuasiveness.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    My point is that both will kill. There are, of course, some differences between fires of different types. However, one thing remains constant: the occupants can be killed by any of them if they don't get out. I definitely agree that manual locks are safer -- school bus emergency exits don't even have locks, they simply only have latches on the inside. This isn't a problem with batteries though -- this is a problem with Tesla.

kube-system 5y ago

That's a demonstration of a $99 harbor freight flux core welder, not a "battery fire" This is a EV fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdaFk3w6rUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdaFk3w6rUY And this is a diesel school bus on fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nPrUdP_POg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nPrUdP_POg If any vehicle catches on fire, you have to leave the vehicle, or risk death. There is no "safe fire"

olivermarks 5y ago
Again, I suggest you digest 'Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles - Safety Risks to Emergency Responders' from the US NTSB which is analysis of types of EV vehicle fires. https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k The 220v mig welder example was to demonstrate the different fire characteristics of a trapped/runaway energy battery fire vs gasoline fire. All commercial vehicles such as school buses have a significant fire risk from hydraulic fluids used for brakes, steering etc. Here is is a refuse truck hydraulic fire example https://youtu.be/aj8-JlRqoWc https://youtu.be/aj8-JlRqoWc The dramatic bus fire you found was probably a combination of that and upholstery. Diesel is much less flammable than gasoline, one of the reasons for its use in commercial vehicles. https://www.anl.gov/article/7-things-you-might-not-know-about-diesel https://www.anl.gov/article/7-things-you-might-not-know-abou... Again, a major concern for me is the over reliance on electric door locks in EVs, which have trapped Tesla drivers who then burnt to death in high voltage fires. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-driver-killed-fire-doors-model-s-trial-elon-musk-a9169691.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-driv... Manual locks would be far safer, especially on school bus full of children. I am not opposed to EVs but I do feel there is a very unrealistic utopian view of their strengths while completely ignoring weaknesses, mostly due to massive public relations persuasiveness.
- kube-system 5y ago
  My point is that both will kill. There are, of course, some differences between fires of different types. However, one thing remains constant: the occupants can be killed by any of them if they don't get out. I definitely agree that manual locks are safer -- school bus emergency exits don't even have locks, they simply only have latches on the inside. This isn't a problem with batteries though -- this is a problem with Tesla.