4 ms·

Same here. I wonder if Proton is tightly bound to x86_64? My first generation M1 is pretty capable as a low to mid-tier games machine but even with stellar Rose

Same here. I wonder if Proton is tightly bound to x86_64? My first generation M1 is pretty capable as a low to mid-tier games machine but even with stellar Rosetta 2 performance it's ultimately held back by still too few Mac ports in general.

tedunangst 5y ago
An arm port of proton would let you run what? Solitaire?
- musha68k 5y ago
  Something more like "Death's Door" or "Valheim" would be something that interests me personally :) So yeah, I have no idea how Proton works.
  - tedunangst 5y ago
    So proton is basically wine, and wine is not an emulator, so there's the first clue. :) It doesn't change cpu architecture.
    - musha68k 5y ago
      From the release note above, I guess FEX would have been the "Rosetta 2" for Asahi but seems to be also out of the question ATM so you are right no Proton indeed for the time being. I didn't know Proton was WINE-IS-NOT-an-EMULATOR based thanks for info :) >There is a category of software that will likely never support 16K page sizes: certain emulators and compatibility layers, including FEX. Well, too bad...
      - floatboth 5y ago
        Eventually 4k page size kernels will work too (but 16k has better performance)
zamadatix 5y ago
The "FEX" mentioned needing 4k page size is about running x86* games on ARM64 much like Rosetta2, including Proton. Really need the GPU though, the standard desktop is already extremely taxing even though the CPU is extremely fast.
- musha68k 5y ago
  Thanks, just read up on that as well - too bad :/ On the desktop side: I always assumed x11/xorg derived GUIs were purely software rendered? Has Wayland finally landed? Sorry I'm lagging behind >10 years of Linux on desktop.
  - nrdvana 5y ago
    It's a big ball of wax with more details than I'll ever memorize, but I know for a fact that for the last 20 years or more X11 GLX has had "indirect contexts" where the application feeds the OpenGL requests over the display socket and the server renders them (possibly) hardware-accelerated. "direct rendering" is where the X11 client negotiates with the X server to make a direct connection from the application to /dev/whatever to talk directly to the kernel driver of the graphics card to do rendering that bypasses the X server. The whole thing with Wayland is just a new generation of coders saying "hey all this pile of new apis on top of old apis on top of older apis spanning back 40 years designed for hardware that no longer exists is insane. We need to start over." They aren't wrong, but they also haven't reached feature parity with the old stuff yet, because doing hardware accelerated 3D graphics over a pipe to a remote host was a pretty amazing feat of technology. Edit: to be a little more specific, Silicon Graphics company's whole business was accelerated graphics, and they were in business since 1982, and invented most of X11, or at least its extensions.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    In regards to acceleration pretty much all major Linux desktop environments have hardware accelerated compositing these days regardless if X11 or Wayland is being used. In regards to Wayland landing or not it has become the default for Ubuntu, Debian, SUSE, RHEL, and many others but a lot of apps still rely on the XWayland compatibility layer to run. The Asahi Desktop install option currently defaults to an X11 Plasma session, I assume for simplicity at this stage, but Wayland works fine as well. Even if you try a desktop environment that requires accelerated rendering and has no native software fallback it'll work via a software rasterizer like LLVMpipe until real GPU acceleration arrives.

tedunangst 5y ago

An arm port of proton would let you run what? Solitaire?

musha68k 5y ago
Something more like "Death's Door" or "Valheim" would be something that interests me personally :) So yeah, I have no idea how Proton works.
- tedunangst 5y ago
  So proton is basically wine, and wine is not an emulator, so there's the first clue. :) It doesn't change cpu architecture.
  - musha68k 5y ago
    From the release note above, I guess FEX would have been the "Rosetta 2" for Asahi but seems to be also out of the question ATM so you are right no Proton indeed for the time being. I didn't know Proton was WINE-IS-NOT-an-EMULATOR based thanks for info :) >There is a category of software that will likely never support 16K page sizes: certain emulators and compatibility layers, including FEX. Well, too bad...
    - floatboth 5y ago
      Eventually 4k page size kernels will work too (but 16k has better performance)

zamadatix 5y ago

The "FEX" mentioned needing 4k page size is about running x86* games on ARM64 much like Rosetta2, including Proton. Really need the GPU though, the standard desktop is already extremely taxing even though the CPU is extremely fast.

musha68k 5y ago
Thanks, just read up on that as well - too bad :/ On the desktop side: I always assumed x11/xorg derived GUIs were purely software rendered? Has Wayland finally landed? Sorry I'm lagging behind >10 years of Linux on desktop.
- nrdvana 5y ago
  It's a big ball of wax with more details than I'll ever memorize, but I know for a fact that for the last 20 years or more X11 GLX has had "indirect contexts" where the application feeds the OpenGL requests over the display socket and the server renders them (possibly) hardware-accelerated. "direct rendering" is where the X11 client negotiates with the X server to make a direct connection from the application to /dev/whatever to talk directly to the kernel driver of the graphics card to do rendering that bypasses the X server. The whole thing with Wayland is just a new generation of coders saying "hey all this pile of new apis on top of old apis on top of older apis spanning back 40 years designed for hardware that no longer exists is insane. We need to start over." They aren't wrong, but they also haven't reached feature parity with the old stuff yet, because doing hardware accelerated 3D graphics over a pipe to a remote host was a pretty amazing feat of technology. Edit: to be a little more specific, Silicon Graphics company's whole business was accelerated graphics, and they were in business since 1982, and invented most of X11, or at least its extensions.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  In regards to acceleration pretty much all major Linux desktop environments have hardware accelerated compositing these days regardless if X11 or Wayland is being used. In regards to Wayland landing or not it has become the default for Ubuntu, Debian, SUSE, RHEL, and many others but a lot of apps still rely on the XWayland compatibility layer to run. The Asahi Desktop install option currently defaults to an X11 Plasma session, I assume for simplicity at this stage, but Wayland works fine as well. Even if you try a desktop environment that requires accelerated rendering and has no native software fallback it'll work via a software rasterizer like LLVMpipe until real GPU acceleration arrives.