4 ms·

> It's not only the "console effect" for the OS though. It's the vertical integration of the hardware to begin with. It's just better than x86 platforms because

> It's not only the "console effect" for the OS though. It's the vertical integration of the hardware to begin with. It's just better than x86 platforms because Apple control everything and can make sure it works together well. It's been very apparent as we work on the platform just how well everything ties together internally. I don't think I agree with you on this. It may be easier for Asahi's developers to manage but it's not like Apple hasn't been cutting corners[1][2] in some areas either, which affects the actual users. I don't know if a power outage leading to lost data or incredibly fast SSD wear are better. It's also only good for the use cases it's advertised for and falls drastically short in other areas.It's not close to either NVidia's or AMD's low-mid range GPUs when it comes to gaming, for example. It is excelling because it's a tool designed for a handful of specific purposes and the related audiences. It's very good to have a non-x86 competitor in the market and it would be amazing if one day I could build a comparably performant ARM-based (or heck even RISCV-based) system for home. [1]: https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1494213855387734019 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1494213855387734019 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26244093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26244093

marcan_42 5y ago
You realize you're linking me my own tweet, right? [1] isn't cutting corners, it's just not optimizing a use case that didn't matter for iOS devices, and not realizing it to fix it when bringing that controller to Macs. I'm not saying the hardware/firmware is absolutely perfect. The part of the story about macOS defaulting to unsafe flushes is a software issue, not a hardware issue. [2] is a macOS bug that was fixed a long time ago. It has nothing to do with hardware whatsoever. In fact, write endurance on Apple SSDs is at the high end of the market. macOS was just eating through it like butter due to a bug.
- BeefWellington 5y ago
  I'll be honest, I didn't see your HN username! :) I don't really agree with [1]. "Use what we already have" is cutting corners, because it's skipping the important steps of considering the impact of those engineering decisions in a new product. Re [2], glad to hear it's changed but the idea that it "has nothing to do with hardware" is a bit misleading because as you noted Apple controls everything. You can't pretend there's a console effect on one hand and then turn around and ignore the downsides to that. Fixed in software is a good answer but I'm struggling to see issues with modern hardware that aren't fixed in software.

marcan_42 5y ago

You realize you're linking me my own tweet, right? [1] isn't cutting corners, it's just not optimizing a use case that didn't matter for iOS devices, and not realizing it to fix it when bringing that controller to Macs. I'm not saying the hardware/firmware is absolutely perfect. The part of the story about macOS defaulting to unsafe flushes is a software issue, not a hardware issue. [2] is a macOS bug that was fixed a long time ago. It has nothing to do with hardware whatsoever. In fact, write endurance on Apple SSDs is at the high end of the market. macOS was just eating through it like butter due to a bug.

BeefWellington 5y ago
I'll be honest, I didn't see your HN username! :) I don't really agree with [1]. "Use what we already have" is cutting corners, because it's skipping the important steps of considering the impact of those engineering decisions in a new product. Re [2], glad to hear it's changed but the idea that it "has nothing to do with hardware" is a bit misleading because as you noted Apple controls everything. You can't pretend there's a console effect on one hand and then turn around and ignore the downsides to that. Fixed in software is a good answer but I'm struggling to see issues with modern hardware that aren't fixed in software.