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This would imply that minority groups make up 126% of TV actors. Even if that number weren’t mathematically impossible, reasonable people would agree that we’re

This would imply that minority groups make up 126% of TV actors. Even if that number weren’t mathematically impossible, reasonable people would agree that we’re not even close to even say 90% representation of minority groups on US TV.

umvi 5y ago
Not every show, but lots of shows over represent minorities in main cast in what appears to be a conscious DEI effort. For example, Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist gives the impression of high representation of minorities in tech (Sprqpoint is extremely DEI friendly being a woke silicon valley tech company, but even the main character's non-techy neighbor is a black genderfluid woman dating a gay black man). The Dragon Prince gives the impression of high representation of minorities as well (with 1 main character and his kingly father black, 1 main character having gay parents, the rulers of the neighboring country being lesbian, etc). I'm not saying that's wrong, just that minority groups don't need to make up 126% of TV actors in order to be overrepresented in main cast. Heck, even outside of media, look at the Supreme Court. Soon 2/9 justices will be black, which is 22% of the court - an over representation of the black population. Again, not that I have a problem with that, just that DEI efforts can cause high visibility groups (such as a TV show's main cast) to be overrepressented by minorities.
- Zircom 5y ago
  The Dragon Prince is set in a fantasy world, so not really a fair comparison. It's possible that in their universe the chances of being black or homosexual is different than ours, and that the onscreen representation of those minorities is perfectly proportional. So trying to compare the two is a moot point.
- automatoney 5y ago
  Aside from what my sibling comment said about a fantasy world, why'd you pick Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist and The Dragon Prince? Surely shows like Abbott Elementary and Euphoria would be more culturally relevant? Or recent animated movies Encanto and Turning Red? And even as far as the Dragon Prince is concerned, it's interesting how you mention it as overrepresentation when much of the diversity is relegated to secondary characters. Callum, Rayla, Claudia, Soren and Viren are all white (elves are in some ways minority coded, but the British accent makes that remain firmly in the realm of coding), and seem to be straight and cisgender. I personally love stories with "overrepresentation" - and not only just to make up for a massive history of erasure and underrepresentation. It makes me so happy to hear people saying "I usually don't feel seen, but THIS character, they look/sound/act like me!" Honestly, as a gay man I still don't feel especially seen - and as far as gay characters I feel connected to beyond just that, it's pretty limited. I can think of maybe... 4 main characters? And they're all in the past few years.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    I don’t get the “feeling seen” thing at all. There were few brown characters on TV when I was growing up, and I’m not sure I even noticed. And I think it’s even worse these days, because you have these white and white adjacent people writing the characters. So you have “representation” but they’re completely unrelateable projections of what white writers think brown people are like/what white audiences want brown people to be like.
    - automatoney 5y ago
      I totally agree with you on the writers room issue! It's a bit less easy to see, but it's definitely important for representation to go beyond shallow stereotype, and actually touch on real experiences. For an example from my background, the "gay best friend" is a pretty tired trope, and while it technically counts as gay representation, I don't feel connected to the character since it doesn't reflect my reality. So for me feeling seen extends beyond to just visibility, but to accurate representation of someone like me. Another reason why this "feeling seen" thing can matter to people is that stories can give people a template to imagine their own life. If I see a gay couple I can connect to, it becomes easier to imagine my own future - what my family may be like in the future, and what kind of person I might be in that relationship. And while it's absolutely possible to think of those sorts of things via straight representation, or just brainstorm separately, for me there's something extra to seeing it in action.
  - donatj 5y ago
    > Aside from what my sibling comment said about a fantasy world, why'd you pick Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist and The Dragon Prince? Surely shows like Abbott Elementary and Euphoria would be more culturally relevant? For what it’s worth I don’t watch shows/TV, yet I’ve heard of both umvi’s examples but neither of yours. I suspect you might be overestimating their influence.
    - automatoney 5y ago
      I'm not a twitter user, but I would think these stats speak to some measure of pop-cultural relevancy? "‘Euphoria’ Is the Most-Tweeted TV Show of the Decade (So Far)" https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/euphoria-most-tweeted-tv-show-1235190599/ https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/euphoria-most-tweeted-... and "‘Abbott Elementary’ Is No. 1 Most-Tweeted TV Comedy of the Year to Date" https://news.yahoo.com/abbott-elementary-no-1-most-171433284.html https://news.yahoo.com/abbott-elementary-no-1-most-171433284... Also this https://www.imdb.com/chart/tvmeter/?ref_=tt_ov_pop https://www.imdb.com/chart/tvmeter/?ref_=tt_ov_pop list has Euphoria as #2 (formerly #1), although to be fair Abbott is not on the list, and I'm personally not familiar with Pieces of Her. So fair enough, might be overestimating for Abbott - but it is on ABC so perhaps relevant to average people. And of all of these shows mentioned, I've only seen The Dragon Prince - I'm only aware of the other ones via discussions.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
When the Grammys eliminated the "urban" award categories there were complaints from some that certain groups weren't half of the nominees.
naniwaduni 5y ago
Not all minorities classifications are mutually exclusive! Intersectionality!

umvi 5y ago

Not every show, but lots of shows over represent minorities in main cast in what appears to be a conscious DEI effort. For example, Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist gives the impression of high representation of minorities in tech (Sprqpoint is extremely DEI friendly being a woke silicon valley tech company, but even the main character's non-techy neighbor is a black genderfluid woman dating a gay black man). The Dragon Prince gives the impression of high representation of minorities as well (with 1 main character and his kingly father black, 1 main character having gay parents, the rulers of the neighboring country being lesbian, etc). I'm not saying that's wrong, just that minority groups don't need to make up 126% of TV actors in order to be overrepresented in main cast. Heck, even outside of media, look at the Supreme Court. Soon 2/9 justices will be black, which is 22% of the court - an over representation of the black population. Again, not that I have a problem with that, just that DEI efforts can cause high visibility groups (such as a TV show's main cast) to be overrepressented by minorities.

Zircom 5y ago
The Dragon Prince is set in a fantasy world, so not really a fair comparison. It's possible that in their universe the chances of being black or homosexual is different than ours, and that the onscreen representation of those minorities is perfectly proportional. So trying to compare the two is a moot point.
automatoney 5y ago
Aside from what my sibling comment said about a fantasy world, why'd you pick Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist and The Dragon Prince? Surely shows like Abbott Elementary and Euphoria would be more culturally relevant? Or recent animated movies Encanto and Turning Red? And even as far as the Dragon Prince is concerned, it's interesting how you mention it as overrepresentation when much of the diversity is relegated to secondary characters. Callum, Rayla, Claudia, Soren and Viren are all white (elves are in some ways minority coded, but the British accent makes that remain firmly in the realm of coding), and seem to be straight and cisgender. I personally love stories with "overrepresentation" - and not only just to make up for a massive history of erasure and underrepresentation. It makes me so happy to hear people saying "I usually don't feel seen, but THIS character, they look/sound/act like me!" Honestly, as a gay man I still don't feel especially seen - and as far as gay characters I feel connected to beyond just that, it's pretty limited. I can think of maybe... 4 main characters? And they're all in the past few years.
- rayiner 5y ago
  I don’t get the “feeling seen” thing at all. There were few brown characters on TV when I was growing up, and I’m not sure I even noticed. And I think it’s even worse these days, because you have these white and white adjacent people writing the characters. So you have “representation” but they’re completely unrelateable projections of what white writers think brown people are like/what white audiences want brown people to be like.
  - automatoney 5y ago
    I totally agree with you on the writers room issue! It's a bit less easy to see, but it's definitely important for representation to go beyond shallow stereotype, and actually touch on real experiences. For an example from my background, the "gay best friend" is a pretty tired trope, and while it technically counts as gay representation, I don't feel connected to the character since it doesn't reflect my reality. So for me feeling seen extends beyond to just visibility, but to accurate representation of someone like me. Another reason why this "feeling seen" thing can matter to people is that stories can give people a template to imagine their own life. If I see a gay couple I can connect to, it becomes easier to imagine my own future - what my family may be like in the future, and what kind of person I might be in that relationship. And while it's absolutely possible to think of those sorts of things via straight representation, or just brainstorm separately, for me there's something extra to seeing it in action.
- donatj 5y ago
  > Aside from what my sibling comment said about a fantasy world, why'd you pick Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist and The Dragon Prince? Surely shows like Abbott Elementary and Euphoria would be more culturally relevant? For what it’s worth I don’t watch shows/TV, yet I’ve heard of both umvi’s examples but neither of yours. I suspect you might be overestimating their influence.
  - automatoney 5y ago
    I'm not a twitter user, but I would think these stats speak to some measure of pop-cultural relevancy? "‘Euphoria’ Is the Most-Tweeted TV Show of the Decade (So Far)" https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/euphoria-most-tweeted-tv-show-1235190599/ https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/euphoria-most-tweeted-... and "‘Abbott Elementary’ Is No. 1 Most-Tweeted TV Comedy of the Year to Date" https://news.yahoo.com/abbott-elementary-no-1-most-171433284.html https://news.yahoo.com/abbott-elementary-no-1-most-171433284... Also this https://www.imdb.com/chart/tvmeter/?ref_=tt_ov_pop https://www.imdb.com/chart/tvmeter/?ref_=tt_ov_pop list has Euphoria as #2 (formerly #1), although to be fair Abbott is not on the list, and I'm personally not familiar with Pieces of Her. So fair enough, might be overestimating for Abbott - but it is on ABC so perhaps relevant to average people. And of all of these shows mentioned, I've only seen The Dragon Prince - I'm only aware of the other ones via discussions.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago

When the Grammys eliminated the "urban" award categories there were complaints from some that certain groups weren't half of the nominees.

naniwaduni 5y ago

Not all minorities classifications are mutually exclusive! Intersectionality!