3 ms·

I think the parent comment makes a fair point. No matter how small the issue, the government's rules are ultimately backed by the threat of deadly violence [0].

I think the parent comment makes a fair point. No matter how small the issue, the government's rules are ultimately backed by the threat of deadly violence [0]. I think the rhetorical difference between "ask" and "force" is ripe for abuse in discussions regarding contentious government roles. [0] If this seems implausible, consider this thought experiment (U.S.-based). A police officer gives you a ticket jaywalking. If you don't pay it, you're at risk of being the target of an arrest warrant. If the police find you, they will attempt to put you in cuffs. It goes downhill from there. For jaywalking. I'm not arguing for or against things working this way, but I do think it's reality.

chociej 5y ago
In that scenario, you are not being arrested for jaywalking
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  > In that scenario, you are not being arrested for jaywalking I agree. But you are being arrested for the consequences of fully refusing to accept the jaywalking rule.
  - chociej 5y ago
    No, I don't think you are. You're being arrested for not paying the fine. Each was an independent choice on your part.
roughly 5y ago
All social compacts are ultimately backed with force. If you and a dozen people fucked off to SeaLand and lived in an anarchic commune, your agreements with one another would _still_ ultimately be backed by force, in the same way that everything here is: Your SeaLand commune agrees on some principles for behavior - say, no pushing other people; someone in the group decides to push other people; the group intervenes, attempts to talk the person out of pushing other people; the Pusher refuses to see reason; the group either resorts to force or abandons the commune to a pushocracy. If you want to argue the government is illegitimate, then go ahead, but to just point vaguely to "socially defined rules are backed by force" isn't really _saying_ anything without that.

chociej 5y ago

In that scenario, you are not being arrested for jaywalking

CoastalCoder 5y ago
> In that scenario, you are not being arrested for jaywalking I agree. But you are being arrested for the consequences of fully refusing to accept the jaywalking rule.
- chociej 5y ago
  No, I don't think you are. You're being arrested for not paying the fine. Each was an independent choice on your part.

roughly 5y ago

All social compacts are ultimately backed with force. If you and a dozen people fucked off to SeaLand and lived in an anarchic commune, your agreements with one another would _still_ ultimately be backed by force, in the same way that everything here is: Your SeaLand commune agrees on some principles for behavior - say, no pushing other people; someone in the group decides to push other people; the group intervenes, attempts to talk the person out of pushing other people; the Pusher refuses to see reason; the group either resorts to force or abandons the commune to a pushocracy. If you want to argue the government is illegitimate, then go ahead, but to just point vaguely to "socially defined rules are backed by force" isn't really _saying_ anything without that.