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> diesel buses breakdown regularly In comparison to what? Diesel engines in commercial vehicles are extremely reliable. It certainly could be possible for an e

> diesel buses breakdown regularly In comparison to what? Diesel engines in commercial vehicles are extremely reliable. It certainly could be possible for an electric bus to be more reliable, they certainly have less points of mechanical wear. However, there are a lot of power electronics going into charging their batteries and delivering the battery power to the motors.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
He probably lived through the "Maxfarce" era in which the Navistar MaxForce diesels that everyone and their brother ran proved to be less reliable than the International 7.3 IDIs they were replacing. To be clear, they weren't unreliable, they just had a tough act to follow.
WWLink 5y ago
The diesel engines in the Thomas busses my school district had in the 90s would like to have a word with you. Those fuckers were always breaking down. lol. Plus they smelled like death and produced gross amounts of black smoke.
rasz 5y ago
Cummins diesels, Toyota diesels, Kubota diesels, Yanmar diesels Yes definitely. US Detroit diesels? lol no.
- linksnapzz 5y ago
  DDC has been "detroit" in name only since the late '80s. First owned by Penske, then Daimler. The Series 60 and newer are perfectly acceptable diesels.
bluGill 5y ago
Most parts that break on a car are common to electric or engines. Suspension, brake fluid (the brakes might last longer but the fluid should be replaced every few years), tires, doors, seats.
- worik 5y ago
  > Most parts that break on a car are common to electric or engines. Suspension, brake fluid (the brakes might last longer but the fluid should be replaced every few years), tires, doors, seats. It is true that a lot of parts are in common. But there are a lot of moving parts, susceptible to failure in an ICE not in electric. I spent a lot of money recently fixing an oil leak and replacing the cam belt on my ICE. Routine maintenance (the leak specifically was not routine but leaks generally are). My next car will be electric, I hope.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Sure, but I just spent a lot of money on my car fixing non engine related problems. Most of the moving parts in an engine are well lubricated and thus don't fail very often. The real expensive failure on any car is when road salt rusts the body away.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      "Most of the moving parts in an engine are well lubricated and thus don't fail very often." For all our family cars over last 30 years, 90% of repair cost was engine. Those oarts are under temperature, pressure and massive friction.
    - polygloty 5y ago
      Can you name them? The engine is lubricated that well just because it gets the most wear and tear. The lubrication just tries to slow it down as much as possible. That's the reason why changing oil and filter is the first and foremost maintenance item on the list.
      - bluGill 5y ago
        Shocks, struts and other suspension parts. After 10 years and 170k miles they were well worn.. these get a lot of wear and are not well lubricated,if only because unlike an engine they cannot be sealed. Windshield was cracked. Something in the TPMS was messed up. Brake fluid change (another thing that few people do but should be done) I didn't pay to fix the blind spot warning system, I want to but the repair costs is more than the car is worth.
headmelted 5y ago
Diesels, in general, are notoriously unreliable. The only very selective myth I still hear repeated is that diesel engines are more durable now than they were, which isn’t saying much, and skirts around just how much else can and regularly does go wrong with a diesel-powered vehicle. Flywheel clutches are an expensive nightmare, and the vibration destroys manifolds, cams and exhausts in short order. That’s only for the dirtiest diesels that aren’t properly using DPFs or AdBlue (which if you’re seriously considering running school buses in 2022 and not using these, you’re a disgrace). Both of these fail regularly and cost a small fortune to replace. There’s an entire underground industry dedicated to removing the particulate filters from Diesels to improve fuel economy and reliability (because I guess some people just hate kids, who knows?). Electric vehicles have been around for well over a decade now, the data is back on them, and on the whole they are astonishingly reliable compared to the ICE vehicles they are replacing. There’s a lot of cables, sure, but they’re flexible and aren’t inherently moving parts.
- VBprogrammer 5y ago
  If Diesel engines are so unreliable why are they used in practically every heavy goods vehicle, bus, tractor, plant equipment, ship and backup electric generator in operation today?
  - drewcon 5y ago
    Torque.
    - cure 5y ago
      Which, incidentally, is also something electric motors are far superior at (flat curve...).
    - screenbreakout 5y ago
      I thought electric had better torque, ie acceleration...?
- iancmceachern 5y ago
vdo 5y ago
I agree, sorry to be tangential, but school buses even have a whole community around converting them into rvs/homes, skoolies. The advice thrown around most often within this community trends toward picking diesel over gas, because diesel ones are very reliable when maintained. I always read it's better to get a pre-2004 diesel bus, because they have simpler, more mechanical parts. Diesel engines are really hyped among skoolie enthusiasts, though of course that is not to say that in e.g. fb groups, you don't hear horror stories of people stranded with a broke-down rig, it's usually lack of maintenance though. When maintained, they do last well past when school districts retire them--maybe survivorship bias, the ones that lasted to the end were more likely to keep lasting. My boyfriend has one such bus that was made the same year he was born (1989) and it took us on a 10-state roadtrip and was our home for over a year.
madduci 5y ago
Exactly. Take construction or military machinery as example : they are all running diesel. Who says that's not reliable? Probably after clocking more than 200.000 km and without maintenance. Motors on good shape and we'll maintained don't break down regularly

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

He probably lived through the "Maxfarce" era in which the Navistar MaxForce diesels that everyone and their brother ran proved to be less reliable than the International 7.3 IDIs they were replacing. To be clear, they weren't unreliable, they just had a tough act to follow.

WWLink 5y ago

The diesel engines in the Thomas busses my school district had in the 90s would like to have a word with you. Those fuckers were always breaking down. lol. Plus they smelled like death and produced gross amounts of black smoke.

rasz 5y ago

Cummins diesels, Toyota diesels, Kubota diesels, Yanmar diesels Yes definitely. US Detroit diesels? lol no.

linksnapzz 5y ago
DDC has been "detroit" in name only since the late '80s. First owned by Penske, then Daimler. The Series 60 and newer are perfectly acceptable diesels.

bluGill 5y ago

Most parts that break on a car are common to electric or engines. Suspension, brake fluid (the brakes might last longer but the fluid should be replaced every few years), tires, doors, seats.

worik 5y ago
> Most parts that break on a car are common to electric or engines. Suspension, brake fluid (the brakes might last longer but the fluid should be replaced every few years), tires, doors, seats. It is true that a lot of parts are in common. But there are a lot of moving parts, susceptible to failure in an ICE not in electric. I spent a lot of money recently fixing an oil leak and replacing the cam belt on my ICE. Routine maintenance (the leak specifically was not routine but leaks generally are). My next car will be electric, I hope.
- bluGill 5y ago
  Sure, but I just spent a lot of money on my car fixing non engine related problems. Most of the moving parts in an engine are well lubricated and thus don't fail very often. The real expensive failure on any car is when road salt rusts the body away.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    "Most of the moving parts in an engine are well lubricated and thus don't fail very often." For all our family cars over last 30 years, 90% of repair cost was engine. Those oarts are under temperature, pressure and massive friction.
  - polygloty 5y ago
    Can you name them? The engine is lubricated that well just because it gets the most wear and tear. The lubrication just tries to slow it down as much as possible. That's the reason why changing oil and filter is the first and foremost maintenance item on the list.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      Shocks, struts and other suspension parts. After 10 years and 170k miles they were well worn.. these get a lot of wear and are not well lubricated,if only because unlike an engine they cannot be sealed. Windshield was cracked. Something in the TPMS was messed up. Brake fluid change (another thing that few people do but should be done) I didn't pay to fix the blind spot warning system, I want to but the repair costs is more than the car is worth.

headmelted 5y ago

Diesels, in general, are notoriously unreliable. The only very selective myth I still hear repeated is that diesel engines are more durable now than they were, which isn’t saying much, and skirts around just how much else can and regularly does go wrong with a diesel-powered vehicle. Flywheel clutches are an expensive nightmare, and the vibration destroys manifolds, cams and exhausts in short order. That’s only for the dirtiest diesels that aren’t properly using DPFs or AdBlue (which if you’re seriously considering running school buses in 2022 and not using these, you’re a disgrace). Both of these fail regularly and cost a small fortune to replace. There’s an entire underground industry dedicated to removing the particulate filters from Diesels to improve fuel economy and reliability (because I guess some people just hate kids, who knows?). Electric vehicles have been around for well over a decade now, the data is back on them, and on the whole they are astonishingly reliable compared to the ICE vehicles they are replacing. There’s a lot of cables, sure, but they’re flexible and aren’t inherently moving parts.

VBprogrammer 5y ago
If Diesel engines are so unreliable why are they used in practically every heavy goods vehicle, bus, tractor, plant equipment, ship and backup electric generator in operation today?
- drewcon 5y ago
  Torque.
  - cure 5y ago
    Which, incidentally, is also something electric motors are far superior at (flat curve...).
  - screenbreakout 5y ago
    I thought electric had better torque, ie acceleration...?
iancmceachern 5y ago

vdo 5y ago

I agree, sorry to be tangential, but school buses even have a whole community around converting them into rvs/homes, skoolies. The advice thrown around most often within this community trends toward picking diesel over gas, because diesel ones are very reliable when maintained. I always read it's better to get a pre-2004 diesel bus, because they have simpler, more mechanical parts. Diesel engines are really hyped among skoolie enthusiasts, though of course that is not to say that in e.g. fb groups, you don't hear horror stories of people stranded with a broke-down rig, it's usually lack of maintenance though. When maintained, they do last well past when school districts retire them--maybe survivorship bias, the ones that lasted to the end were more likely to keep lasting. My boyfriend has one such bus that was made the same year he was born (1989) and it took us on a 10-state roadtrip and was our home for over a year.

madduci 5y ago

Exactly. Take construction or military machinery as example : they are all running diesel. Who says that's not reliable? Probably after clocking more than 200.000 km and without maintenance. Motors on good shape and we'll maintained don't break down regularly