3 ms·

>Cynically, I know it's easier to switch jobs if both are WFH... Somehow I had not considered this, but it seems like the dominant factor.

by ouid 5y ago

fartcannon 5y ago
Depending on your workload, you might even be able to try a couple on for size before you quit. If you quit.
karaterobot 5y ago
Personal anecdote: When I moved from an office job to a WFH job, there was this absurd period when I had to do a series of interviews with the remote company. It was like 8 different interviews on 8 different days, and they were all video calls. So, I had to figure out 8 different excuses to be gone for two hours to commute home, do an interview, and come back to work, all within a couple weeks: dentist appointment, doctor's appointment, optometry appointment, picking a friend up from the airport, followup appointments, etc. I'm pretty sure that's a huge tipoff to HR.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  We used to call them "going to the eye doctor" to our colleagues. "Yeah, I have a follow-up eye exam tomorrow." "They gave me a much stronger prescription (salary). You should go get your eyes checked!” Side note: If anyone is working for me and is/wants to be interviewing, I welcome them to talk about it and/or to just to book a conference room and take the interview from there. Taking 2 hours and hassle is worse than taking 1 hour and feeling like we’re all adults.
  - throwaway1777 5y ago
    lol. Has any employee actually taken you up on that? I would never do this in a million years personally.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I've been on both sides of it several times. I've counseled several employees on what I thought of their external prospects (generally and for specific job listings) and sometimes that ends up with, "Yeah, I think you oughta go for that one." Other times, it ends up with "Here's what I see for you here; here's what I see there; you have to decide." On the other end, I've told four different bosses that I was either considering looking or actively looking, and why. Sometimes that ends up in me changing jobs; sometimes it doesn't because we can address what isn't working for me or reach a middle ground that works. I think people assume far too much ill intent on the part of managers. To me, I want you working for me because you want to be doing the work we're doing and are happy with the pay we're paying. If you're not happy, you're not going to do your best work, you're not going to grow as much as you are capable of, and selfishly, the company is not going to get the best output from you. I don't need everyone to be ecstatic and grinding away with perfect devotion, but I generally want people to be happy (for them, for me, and for the company). From that, you'll correctly guess that I've 100% had employees reserve conference rooms to take interviews. It's no problem in my book. (Other employees: the first I knew they were looking was when they handed me a resignation letter. That's also perfectly OK; your business is your business.)
      - mumblemumble 5y ago
        > I think people assume far too much ill intent on the part of managers. Not ill intent, just basic human fallibility. I would be worried that my manager takes it personally, and has difficulty trusting me going forward. So I would be hesitant to do something that I fully expect to be severely career-limiting should I decide not to pursue this other opportunity. It's not entirely dissimilar from how most people aren't comfortable being in an open relationship. Wanting one's partner to be monogamous generally isn't about carrying ill intent toward them. It's more likely to be about everyday human insecurity.
      - travisgriggs 5y ago
        I don’t suspect I’ll intent. But once you’re not playing to the illusion of any sort of long term, other people won’t invest in you as much (peers and managers). Some jobs tolerate this day to day transactional nature well, others not so much.
  - dennis_jeeves1 5y ago
    >Side note: If anyone is working for me and is/wants to be interviewing, I welcome them to talk about it and/or to just to book a conference room and take the interview from there. Taking 2 hours and hassle is worse than taking 1 hour and feeling like we’re all adults. I've put for similar options, I even offer to be their reference. True, we should be all adults, anything else is stressful for all involved.
- jkaplowitz 5y ago
  As a hiring manager for a remote team myself, whatever company scheduled your interviews that way was very unfair to you to make you take that risk 8 times. We do have a similar numbers of total conversations in our hiring process, but they're grouped into a smaller number of chunks/days; only some of those are an hour with 2-4 of them between 15 and 45 minutes; and we span many time zones and biorhythms on several continents so we can accommodate candidates who prefer to interview when they're at home. That said, over my pre-pandemic career I think I've undergone interviews from small conference rooms or "phone booths" at workplaces before, with any bookings labeled as something like "personal call", or at cafes or quiet outdoor spaces near workplaces; most of my office jobs have allowed a certain amount of WFH too even if not a majority of my time.
- pragmatic 5y ago
  That bs seemed more common in the early days of remote. Now I (and most I’ve talked to in my network) ask the recruiter up front about the interview process. This BS is a non starter. I had to do a presentation to a huge group on why I’d be a good fit followed by 3 hours of group interviews. This was after a tech screen and a fairly intense live coding tech interview. I’d never do that again unless it’s for my “dream” job. I got that job but it was nothing special. I then had to sit in on these as senior eng I had to be part of the hiring committee. Such a time sink for all involved.

>Cynically, I know it's easier to switch jobs if both are WFH... Somehow I had not considered this, but it seems like the dominant factor.

by ouid 5y ago

>Cynically, I know it's easier to switch jobs if both are WFH... Somehow I had not considered this, but it seems like the dominant factor.

fartcannon 5y ago

Depending on your workload, you might even be able to try a couple on for size before you quit. If you quit.

karaterobot 5y ago

Personal anecdote: When I moved from an office job to a WFH job, there was this absurd period when I had to do a series of interviews with the remote company. It was like 8 different interviews on 8 different days, and they were all video calls. So, I had to figure out 8 different excuses to be gone for two hours to commute home, do an interview, and come back to work, all within a couple weeks: dentist appointment, doctor's appointment, optometry appointment, picking a friend up from the airport, followup appointments, etc. I'm pretty sure that's a huge tipoff to HR.

sokoloff 5y ago
We used to call them "going to the eye doctor" to our colleagues. "Yeah, I have a follow-up eye exam tomorrow." "They gave me a much stronger prescription (salary). You should go get your eyes checked!” Side note: If anyone is working for me and is/wants to be interviewing, I welcome them to talk about it and/or to just to book a conference room and take the interview from there. Taking 2 hours and hassle is worse than taking 1 hour and feeling like we’re all adults.
- throwaway1777 5y ago
  lol. Has any employee actually taken you up on that? I would never do this in a million years personally.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I've been on both sides of it several times. I've counseled several employees on what I thought of their external prospects (generally and for specific job listings) and sometimes that ends up with, "Yeah, I think you oughta go for that one." Other times, it ends up with "Here's what I see for you here; here's what I see there; you have to decide." On the other end, I've told four different bosses that I was either considering looking or actively looking, and why. Sometimes that ends up in me changing jobs; sometimes it doesn't because we can address what isn't working for me or reach a middle ground that works. I think people assume far too much ill intent on the part of managers. To me, I want you working for me because you want to be doing the work we're doing and are happy with the pay we're paying. If you're not happy, you're not going to do your best work, you're not going to grow as much as you are capable of, and selfishly, the company is not going to get the best output from you. I don't need everyone to be ecstatic and grinding away with perfect devotion, but I generally want people to be happy (for them, for me, and for the company). From that, you'll correctly guess that I've 100% had employees reserve conference rooms to take interviews. It's no problem in my book. (Other employees: the first I knew they were looking was when they handed me a resignation letter. That's also perfectly OK; your business is your business.)
    - mumblemumble 5y ago
      > I think people assume far too much ill intent on the part of managers. Not ill intent, just basic human fallibility. I would be worried that my manager takes it personally, and has difficulty trusting me going forward. So I would be hesitant to do something that I fully expect to be severely career-limiting should I decide not to pursue this other opportunity. It's not entirely dissimilar from how most people aren't comfortable being in an open relationship. Wanting one's partner to be monogamous generally isn't about carrying ill intent toward them. It's more likely to be about everyday human insecurity.
    - travisgriggs 5y ago
      I don’t suspect I’ll intent. But once you’re not playing to the illusion of any sort of long term, other people won’t invest in you as much (peers and managers). Some jobs tolerate this day to day transactional nature well, others not so much.
- dennis_jeeves1 5y ago
  >Side note: If anyone is working for me and is/wants to be interviewing, I welcome them to talk about it and/or to just to book a conference room and take the interview from there. Taking 2 hours and hassle is worse than taking 1 hour and feeling like we’re all adults. I've put for similar options, I even offer to be their reference. True, we should be all adults, anything else is stressful for all involved.
jkaplowitz 5y ago
As a hiring manager for a remote team myself, whatever company scheduled your interviews that way was very unfair to you to make you take that risk 8 times. We do have a similar numbers of total conversations in our hiring process, but they're grouped into a smaller number of chunks/days; only some of those are an hour with 2-4 of them between 15 and 45 minutes; and we span many time zones and biorhythms on several continents so we can accommodate candidates who prefer to interview when they're at home. That said, over my pre-pandemic career I think I've undergone interviews from small conference rooms or "phone booths" at workplaces before, with any bookings labeled as something like "personal call", or at cafes or quiet outdoor spaces near workplaces; most of my office jobs have allowed a certain amount of WFH too even if not a majority of my time.
pragmatic 5y ago
That bs seemed more common in the early days of remote. Now I (and most I’ve talked to in my network) ask the recruiter up front about the interview process. This BS is a non starter. I had to do a presentation to a huge group on why I’d be a good fit followed by 3 hours of group interviews. This was after a tech screen and a fairly intense live coding tech interview. I’d never do that again unless it’s for my “dream” job. I got that job but it was nothing special. I then had to sit in on these as senior eng I had to be part of the hiring committee. Such a time sink for all involved.