7 ms·

Dubai is currently the go-to destination of shady money. It’s the next Monaco/Swizerland. The local rulers have de facto control over government, jurisdictional

Dubai is currently the go-to destination of shady money. It’s the next Monaco/Swizerland. The local rulers have de facto control over government, jurisdictional and businesses. Any money is welcome as long as the right parties get their share - the rule of the law does not apply as long as you hire the right lawyer and advisors. It’s still the US ally in Middle East and so far, Dubai/UAE has had a blind eye on their lax money-laundering practice. Here is a good article from The Economist on the situation. I apologise for the low quality of photo of the page. https://twitter.com/moo9000/status/1504425086073413639 https://twitter.com/moo9000/status/1504425086073413639

webkike 5y ago
I really don’t understand the appeal of Dubai unless the only thing you care about is living in a resort
- gonehome 5y ago
  There's no income tax. There's less appeal if you're an American since the USG taxes you anywhere in the world, but if you're Canadian there's a lot of appeal to live there for a few years as a resident. The people I've known in this category do something like this: - Canadian Citizen - Move to Dubai - Trade crypto, make eight digit returns, liquidate funds - Move back to Canada eventually without having had to pay tax on those funds You can't do this as a US citizen without renouncing citizenship, but you can do this for most countries in the world (at least that's what people doing this have told me, I haven't looked into it that deeply myself).
  - DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
    I don't think this is unique to Canadians. Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the US the only country that makes you file your taxes in the home country no matter if you live abroad.
    - davchana 5y ago
      US & Eritrea..
      - gonehome 5y ago
        Not great company - though you have to escape Eritrea in the first place, they don’t allow young people to leave (coworker I used to work with escaped and would talk about what it was like). In practice no way anyone living abroad pays taxes to Eritrea (and probably few would go back given the risks).
    - gonehome 5y ago
      Yeah I think you’re right, but I’m American so haven’t looked into it that much since I wouldn’t give up citizenship for it.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    It's more complex. If you just move to Dubai you will be considered a resident for tax purposes based on your links back to the Old Country. Examples of such links include if you own a property, have a bank account, have healthcare policies and registration, or if you are a member of a society or group. So, having links boils down to either owning a substantial asset back in Canada or continuing to being a part of day-to-day operations there. This use to be popular with working at sea for 6 months to avoid taxes until it changed. You could be sailing around the world for the next two years any income you make would be taxable even if you renounce your citizenship (unless you take another citizenship or become a resident in a physical location) So you could do this but for the effort you would be better off trading cryto from Canada avoiding popular exchanges and not reporting
    - gonehome 5y ago
      The latter option is illegal though? My understanding was you could legally move to the UAE for a time as a Canadian citizen and do what I described. It seems easy enough to not have day to day operations in Canada during that time. This seems like a way better option than tax evasion and prison imo.
      - ipaddr 5y ago
        If you are willing to completely cut ties. No bank account, no property, no memberships, no ties at all. Then you have to wait for a period of time. It won't be easy and they may retroactivity tax you. If you got married had a family took another citizenship and lived for many years away your plan could work. The easiest legally would be to set it up under a company and pay a much lower tax rate.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  Have you ever been there before? I thought the same before and then I lived there for a few months. I left feeling different about the place.
  - Aliabid94 5y ago
    Can you elaborate?
mywacaday 5y ago
Cyprus is also a big location for Russian money.
selectodude 5y ago
For those who don't want to try to read a picture of a magazine embedded in a tweet: https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2022/02/26/the-uae-tries-to-crack-down-on-dirty-money https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2022/02/26/...
- lelandbatey 5y ago
  Archive of the economist page, to get around the paywall: https://web.archive.org/web/20220303055330/https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2022/02/26/the-uae-tries-to-crack-down-on-dirty-money https://web.archive.org/web/20220303055330/https://www.econo...
  - wackget 5y ago
    Archive.org is blocked by UK mobile providers. We need to go one layer deeper with a mirror of the archive of the paywall.
    - syndacks 5y ago
      https://archive.is/SBEpB https://archive.is/SBEpB
    - FreezingKeeper 5y ago
      Not blocked here on 3. You’re right in that the networks often have the “adult content” filter (porn, gambling etc.) turned on, but you should be able to turn it off pretty easily. I suspect it’s that filtering that’s blocking archive.org for you
      - heavenlyblue 5y ago
        Yeah I am on Vodafone UK and it loads for me. I did specifically disable child filters though
_dain_ 5y ago
>The local rulers have de facto control over government, jurisdictional and businesses. isn't that a tautology?
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  It isn't normal (at least in a democracy) for the local rulers to have that kind of control over businesses. "Jurisdictional" I presume means that they don't have an independent judiciary either. Those things matter quite a bit.
  - qiskit 5y ago
    > It isn't normal (at least in a democracy) for the local rulers to have that kind of control over businesses. Democracies are preventing businesses from operating in russia. What exactly makes democracies so special that it isn't beyond corruption or evil? People have said democracies don't commit genocide, democracies don't invade and steal territory, democracies don't enslave, etc. When the truth is that democracies have committed the greatest genocides, stolen the most land, committed the worst evils. I've yet to get a satisfactory response. Russia is a democracy and the current bogeyman was elected. It's like people are so brainwashed by propaganda that they can't see the truth.
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      > When the truth is that democracies have committed the greatest genocides, stolen the most land, committed the worst evils. Yeah... re-read history without the biases, and you'll see that that is absolutely false. > Russia is a democracy and the current bogeyman was elected. Well, Russia has elections. It also jails those who are trying to run against Putin, and Putin controls the media. So you wind up with the trappings of democracy without the reality. (At least today. I think the original election that he won may have been fair.)
      - qiskit 5y ago
        > Yeah... re-read history without the biases, and you'll see that that is absolutely false. I have re-read history. Who has committed more genocides than the US? What non-democratic country has nuked a city? I don't think I'm the one with the bias here. Just in the post cold war era, almost all the invasions have been carried out by democracies. > Well, Russia has elections. It also jails those who are trying to run against Putin, and Putin controls the media. So you wind up with the trappings of democracy without the reality. Right. And who do you think controls the media in other democracies? > (At least today. I think the original election that he won may have been fair.) So ultimately, democracy gave us Putin? So democracies are bad. Instead of just blindly accepting propaganda, maybe you should ask why the propaganda doesn't align with facts and reality. Perhaps, as socrates said, democracies are not good to begin with.
mullingitover 5y ago
> The local rulers have de facto control over government, jurisdictional and businesses > ...the rule of the law does not apply... All of these should be red flags - even if you yourself are shady, you want strong property rights and rule of law, not whatever the local despot feels like doing that day.
- tryptophan 5y ago
  Indeed. The entire point of taking the money out of Russia to get away from the lack of rule of law, etc.. How are a bunch of dumb 2nd generation oil pumper warlords going to protect your money longterm?
  - smegger001 5y ago
    I think the idea is to transit your money through there to launder it. part of a internation shell company game. sure the money coming from businesses and companies there look shady but not enough to cause anyone to investigate it as enough powerful and politically connected people from multiple countries would not like it to be looked at.
  - abcc8 5y ago
    Agreed. Maybe Dubai the least worst choice.
- phist_mcgee 5y ago
  Switzerland was above all stable. Perhaps one of the most stable countries on earth. The appeal was that stability paired with its murky banking.
  - rnk 5y ago
    Switzerland has some people leaking the egregious money laundering and connections to bad people parking their money there. And I want to applaud those people. Insider leaking that info is an important world wide defense against the moneyed rich getting too much power.
- 5y ago
fmajid 5y ago
Long before Dubai registered on the map, their speciality was gold smuggling towards India. It's also no coincidence their entire economy is run by British expats, the native citizens are an indolent rentier class that just skims off the top.

webkike 5y ago

I really don’t understand the appeal of Dubai unless the only thing you care about is living in a resort

gonehome 5y ago
There's no income tax. There's less appeal if you're an American since the USG taxes you anywhere in the world, but if you're Canadian there's a lot of appeal to live there for a few years as a resident. The people I've known in this category do something like this: - Canadian Citizen - Move to Dubai - Trade crypto, make eight digit returns, liquidate funds - Move back to Canada eventually without having had to pay tax on those funds You can't do this as a US citizen without renouncing citizenship, but you can do this for most countries in the world (at least that's what people doing this have told me, I haven't looked into it that deeply myself).
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  I don't think this is unique to Canadians. Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the US the only country that makes you file your taxes in the home country no matter if you live abroad.
  - davchana 5y ago
    US & Eritrea..
    - gonehome 5y ago
      Not great company - though you have to escape Eritrea in the first place, they don’t allow young people to leave (coworker I used to work with escaped and would talk about what it was like). In practice no way anyone living abroad pays taxes to Eritrea (and probably few would go back given the risks).
  - gonehome 5y ago
    Yeah I think you’re right, but I’m American so haven’t looked into it that much since I wouldn’t give up citizenship for it.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  It's more complex. If you just move to Dubai you will be considered a resident for tax purposes based on your links back to the Old Country. Examples of such links include if you own a property, have a bank account, have healthcare policies and registration, or if you are a member of a society or group. So, having links boils down to either owning a substantial asset back in Canada or continuing to being a part of day-to-day operations there. This use to be popular with working at sea for 6 months to avoid taxes until it changed. You could be sailing around the world for the next two years any income you make would be taxable even if you renounce your citizenship (unless you take another citizenship or become a resident in a physical location) So you could do this but for the effort you would be better off trading cryto from Canada avoiding popular exchanges and not reporting
  - gonehome 5y ago
    The latter option is illegal though? My understanding was you could legally move to the UAE for a time as a Canadian citizen and do what I described. It seems easy enough to not have day to day operations in Canada during that time. This seems like a way better option than tax evasion and prison imo.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      If you are willing to completely cut ties. No bank account, no property, no memberships, no ties at all. Then you have to wait for a period of time. It won't be easy and they may retroactivity tax you. If you got married had a family took another citizenship and lived for many years away your plan could work. The easiest legally would be to set it up under a company and pay a much lower tax rate.
kilroy123 5y ago
Have you ever been there before? I thought the same before and then I lived there for a few months. I left feeling different about the place.
- Aliabid94 5y ago
  Can you elaborate?

mywacaday 5y ago

Cyprus is also a big location for Russian money.

selectodude 5y ago

For those who don't want to try to read a picture of a magazine embedded in a tweet: https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2022/02/26/the-uae-tries-to-crack-down-on-dirty-money https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2022/02/26/...

lelandbatey 5y ago
Archive of the economist page, to get around the paywall: https://web.archive.org/web/20220303055330/https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2022/02/26/the-uae-tries-to-crack-down-on-dirty-money https://web.archive.org/web/20220303055330/https://www.econo...
- wackget 5y ago
  Archive.org is blocked by UK mobile providers. We need to go one layer deeper with a mirror of the archive of the paywall.
  - syndacks 5y ago
    https://archive.is/SBEpB https://archive.is/SBEpB
  - FreezingKeeper 5y ago
    Not blocked here on 3. You’re right in that the networks often have the “adult content” filter (porn, gambling etc.) turned on, but you should be able to turn it off pretty easily. I suspect it’s that filtering that’s blocking archive.org for you
    - heavenlyblue 5y ago
      Yeah I am on Vodafone UK and it loads for me. I did specifically disable child filters though

_dain_ 5y ago

>The local rulers have de facto control over government, jurisdictional and businesses. isn't that a tautology?

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
It isn't normal (at least in a democracy) for the local rulers to have that kind of control over businesses. "Jurisdictional" I presume means that they don't have an independent judiciary either. Those things matter quite a bit.
- qiskit 5y ago
  > It isn't normal (at least in a democracy) for the local rulers to have that kind of control over businesses. Democracies are preventing businesses from operating in russia. What exactly makes democracies so special that it isn't beyond corruption or evil? People have said democracies don't commit genocide, democracies don't invade and steal territory, democracies don't enslave, etc. When the truth is that democracies have committed the greatest genocides, stolen the most land, committed the worst evils. I've yet to get a satisfactory response. Russia is a democracy and the current bogeyman was elected. It's like people are so brainwashed by propaganda that they can't see the truth.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    > When the truth is that democracies have committed the greatest genocides, stolen the most land, committed the worst evils. Yeah... re-read history without the biases, and you'll see that that is absolutely false. > Russia is a democracy and the current bogeyman was elected. Well, Russia has elections. It also jails those who are trying to run against Putin, and Putin controls the media. So you wind up with the trappings of democracy without the reality. (At least today. I think the original election that he won may have been fair.)
    - qiskit 5y ago
      > Yeah... re-read history without the biases, and you'll see that that is absolutely false. I have re-read history. Who has committed more genocides than the US? What non-democratic country has nuked a city? I don't think I'm the one with the bias here. Just in the post cold war era, almost all the invasions have been carried out by democracies. > Well, Russia has elections. It also jails those who are trying to run against Putin, and Putin controls the media. So you wind up with the trappings of democracy without the reality. Right. And who do you think controls the media in other democracies? > (At least today. I think the original election that he won may have been fair.) So ultimately, democracy gave us Putin? So democracies are bad. Instead of just blindly accepting propaganda, maybe you should ask why the propaganda doesn't align with facts and reality. Perhaps, as socrates said, democracies are not good to begin with.

mullingitover 5y ago

> The local rulers have de facto control over government, jurisdictional and businesses > ...the rule of the law does not apply... All of these should be red flags - even if you yourself are shady, you want strong property rights and rule of law, not whatever the local despot feels like doing that day.

tryptophan 5y ago
Indeed. The entire point of taking the money out of Russia to get away from the lack of rule of law, etc.. How are a bunch of dumb 2nd generation oil pumper warlords going to protect your money longterm?
- smegger001 5y ago
  I think the idea is to transit your money through there to launder it. part of a internation shell company game. sure the money coming from businesses and companies there look shady but not enough to cause anyone to investigate it as enough powerful and politically connected people from multiple countries would not like it to be looked at.
- abcc8 5y ago
  Agreed. Maybe Dubai the least worst choice.
phist_mcgee 5y ago
Switzerland was above all stable. Perhaps one of the most stable countries on earth. The appeal was that stability paired with its murky banking.
- rnk 5y ago
  Switzerland has some people leaking the egregious money laundering and connections to bad people parking their money there. And I want to applaud those people. Insider leaking that info is an important world wide defense against the moneyed rich getting too much power.
5y ago

fmajid 5y ago

Long before Dubai registered on the map, their speciality was gold smuggling towards India. It's also no coincidence their entire economy is run by British expats, the native citizens are an indolent rentier class that just skims off the top.