4 ms·

I had a friend who let someone move in as part of an apartment share. Person NEVER paid them a nickel, never paid landlord anything, claimed they felt unsafe an

I had a friend who let someone move in as part of an apartment share. Person NEVER paid them a nickel, never paid landlord anything, claimed they felt unsafe and got a restraining order. It was actually genius. My (female) friend HAD TO MOVE OUT of the house she was renting, the landlord required she still pay rent on the lease. "self-help" (changing locks) was totally out. All this would have been fine I think if she could have gone to court in a week or two (the person literally hadn't paid anyone anything). Instead it was 18 months to the FIRST court date, plenty of drama between A and B, and at that court date it was clear it was going to take a LONG time longer (in fairness COVID came into picture but still). It turned out of course this person had done this repeatedly. In my friends case the landlord just demanded she keep on paying rent and so was no help on eviction. So she was paying rent on a new place, paying rent on the old place AND paying legal bills vs a tenant getting free community legal help and who was an absolute expert in the rules. Luckily for her for some reason tenant DID want to move eventually, and they basically arranged a settlement. She paid landlord for some damages, she paid tenant a cash for keys amount (substantial) and was allowed to go on with her life. You could only afford this on a bay area tech level salary. For normal landlords and people this is insane. When someone says the eviction has to be "for" a reason, and a court has to review that reason and approve it, in the bay area that easily 1-2 years if someone wants to stretch it out.

jdmichal 5y ago
So she basically directly sublet part of her apartment, and is surprised the landlord didn't care and still held her responsible? That's exactly the stance the landlord should take in such a situation. Assuming it wasn't just directly a breach of contract of the rental terms to start with, which would even further just protect the landlord. Did she even bother to draft a contract with the subletter? Or was this all just, "sure, stranger, move right on in to the property for which I am legally obligated? I'm sure this will all work out fine."
- zamfi 5y ago
  Did you miss the part about waiting 18 months for a court date? A legal contract is only as strong as the incentives to litigate it. Doesn't seem likely a contract would've helped, it may even have existed.
  - jdmichal 5y ago
    If there was a contract, it probably would have helped a lot in the restraining order hearing. Which apparently had no issues happening faster than 18 months?
    - zamfi 5y ago
      A restraining order (at least, a temporary one) can be issued without a hearing.
- tempnow987 5y ago
  She had lease with landlord, and was looking to share the place. She was planning on continuing to live in the unit. This is common in a college towns if the apartment is a 2 bedroom, often you would rent the second bedroom out. Yes, landlord reasonably checked out. They agreed on terms in terms of the monthly amount, utilities etc. New roommate gave some reason to want to get going on getting their stuff moved in or measuring things or something, she gave them a copy of the key for that. That's all it took.
  - jdmichal 5y ago
    Yes, sharing an apartment is typical in college. However, when I was in college, it was typical to go to the management and modify the lease to include the extra person. That way they are at least equally legally responsible for everything, and it gives the landlord a reason to care. The landlord may even run a background check, which may have exposed this issue, since you state this was not the first time. Regardless, tough lesson to learn on not handing out a key to someone without a contract. I mean, that's a level of trust that I don't even have with my friends, much less someone I'm potentially going to room with. No contract, no keys. I had a feeling there was more to the story. There probably still is, but I'm satisfied now on how this managed to "just happen". I still don't understand how, after the restraining order, this person then claimed legal residence in order to get your friend removed from her legal residence. I also don't understand why this wasn't immediately a phone call to the police to get this person removed from the property.
Ekaros 5y ago
Seems like the problem was the restraining order. Should have fought that one. Blame the part of the system that was true problem.
- tempnow987 5y ago
  My sense was that the living situation was in fact untenable (ie, shared kitchen, accusations of theft etc).

jdmichal 5y ago

So she basically directly sublet part of her apartment, and is surprised the landlord didn't care and still held her responsible? That's exactly the stance the landlord should take in such a situation. Assuming it wasn't just directly a breach of contract of the rental terms to start with, which would even further just protect the landlord. Did she even bother to draft a contract with the subletter? Or was this all just, "sure, stranger, move right on in to the property for which I am legally obligated? I'm sure this will all work out fine."

zamfi 5y ago
Did you miss the part about waiting 18 months for a court date? A legal contract is only as strong as the incentives to litigate it. Doesn't seem likely a contract would've helped, it may even have existed.
- jdmichal 5y ago
  If there was a contract, it probably would have helped a lot in the restraining order hearing. Which apparently had no issues happening faster than 18 months?
  - zamfi 5y ago
    A restraining order (at least, a temporary one) can be issued without a hearing.
tempnow987 5y ago
She had lease with landlord, and was looking to share the place. She was planning on continuing to live in the unit. This is common in a college towns if the apartment is a 2 bedroom, often you would rent the second bedroom out. Yes, landlord reasonably checked out. They agreed on terms in terms of the monthly amount, utilities etc. New roommate gave some reason to want to get going on getting their stuff moved in or measuring things or something, she gave them a copy of the key for that. That's all it took.
- jdmichal 5y ago
  Yes, sharing an apartment is typical in college. However, when I was in college, it was typical to go to the management and modify the lease to include the extra person. That way they are at least equally legally responsible for everything, and it gives the landlord a reason to care. The landlord may even run a background check, which may have exposed this issue, since you state this was not the first time. Regardless, tough lesson to learn on not handing out a key to someone without a contract. I mean, that's a level of trust that I don't even have with my friends, much less someone I'm potentially going to room with. No contract, no keys. I had a feeling there was more to the story. There probably still is, but I'm satisfied now on how this managed to "just happen". I still don't understand how, after the restraining order, this person then claimed legal residence in order to get your friend removed from her legal residence. I also don't understand why this wasn't immediately a phone call to the police to get this person removed from the property.

Ekaros 5y ago

Seems like the problem was the restraining order. Should have fought that one. Blame the part of the system that was true problem.

tempnow987 5y ago
My sense was that the living situation was in fact untenable (ie, shared kitchen, accusations of theft etc).