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> "...Ukrainian television and radio were cut, and car stereos became the only link to the outside world. They played Russian news, describing a world that coul

> "...Ukrainian television and radio were cut, and car stereos became the only link to the outside world. They played Russian news, describing a world that couldn’t be further from the reality in Mariupol." As much as the whole world wants to believe that the people of the Russian Federation are uninformed, or disallowed the information, and disinformed by the propaganda...the grim reality seems that they rather need to believe that propaganda, because it seemingly absolves them of the resposibility for these atrocities The simple folks of Russia are very much familiar with the horrors and the scale of such war atrocities as from the vast WW2 history, just as from Grozny and Aleppo times. They get how cruel and mindless this is. Just they cannot admit to themselves and their children that this time they are the aggressor side. It must be the same kind of "fear of blame" that is not that different from decades of Stalin's rule. For many citizens of the Russian Federation, it's the only place to live their lives, there's no exit, not much choice for change. The fear has simply transformed the reality, just as it has done it in times before... I have no hopes that these folks would suddenly "wake up to truth". Nor that they would attain to any collective remorse for this. Perhaps this fear could only be supplanted by their personal grief. The Russian country seems to have turned into a Federation of Fear - the main product that its rulers now want to export to the rest of the world. It's the grief that the world is already harvesting.

jdrc 5y ago
It's no use to blame Putin's subjects for all this. They did not push for this war. They were as surprised as anyone from the invasion, but of course they will support their army now because they have spent a decade learning to hate the west and blame it for every evil[1]. But putin also calculated (correctly) that the west wouldn't react strongly , like it didnt react with syria, georgia, karabakh, libya. Invading weak countries to make a victory lap is how he legitimizes himself to his subjects and to the nearby dictators (like aliyev). This was made worse by watching how afghanistan ended, and how the US is quickly shifting to the Pacific. The US needs to set a red line to stop him, that is the only thing that delegitimizes him 1.https://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_how_russia_has_come_to_loathe_the_west311346/ https://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_how_russia_has_come_to_lo...
packet_nerd 5y ago
I've been text messaging with random Russians a bunch over the last couple weeks and have had conversations with ~100 people, some of them quite extensive. Not once has anyone really condemned the war. A few are cynical about their government, people, and the rest of the world, and sad that this has to happen. But the vast majority weren't even that. Just straight up nationalist, repeatedly saying that they had to do something or they would be destroyed by the west. And insisting that Ukraine belonged to Russia. Absolutely no-one denied the facts as far as the toll on human life or the destruction of Ukraine, and not a single person thought its a "special operation" instead of a war. I heard a lot of what seems to me to be extreme paranoia about NATO, America, and Nazis just waiting for an opportunity to invade and destroy them. The whole experience has been kind of shocking to me. I went into this believing that Russians where like innocent captives of evil politicians and oligarchs and had no idea what was going on. But based on the conversations I've had, that is not the case at all. They know exactly what is going on as far as the cost in human lives, and believe it's necessary to ensure their own survival.
- sorokod 5y ago
  > They know exactly what is going on as far as the cost in human lives Do they? Do they know how many Russians have been killed so far?
  - packet_nerd 5y ago
    I haven't really talked to anyone who's contested the fact that thousands of Russian soldiers and Russian speaking Ukrainian civilians have been killed.
    - sorokod 5y ago
      That was at trick question, Russian MoD doesn't publish those numbers.
- Moru 5y ago
  I think you need to watch this one[0], it's an explanation of what you are seeing. In general, that is the propaganda doing it's job. It's similar to all countries, we all have our propaganda and our view of our situation in the world. Russias is the classical "It's us against them! And we are surrounded by our enemies!". I'm sure North Korea is about the same only worse. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw

jdrc 5y ago

It's no use to blame Putin's subjects for all this. They did not push for this war. They were as surprised as anyone from the invasion, but of course they will support their army now because they have spent a decade learning to hate the west and blame it for every evil[1]. But putin also calculated (correctly) that the west wouldn't react strongly , like it didnt react with syria, georgia, karabakh, libya. Invading weak countries to make a victory lap is how he legitimizes himself to his subjects and to the nearby dictators (like aliyev). This was made worse by watching how afghanistan ended, and how the US is quickly shifting to the Pacific. The US needs to set a red line to stop him, that is the only thing that delegitimizes him 1.https://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_how_russia_has_come_to_loathe_the_west311346/ https://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_how_russia_has_come_to_lo...

packet_nerd 5y ago

I've been text messaging with random Russians a bunch over the last couple weeks and have had conversations with ~100 people, some of them quite extensive. Not once has anyone really condemned the war. A few are cynical about their government, people, and the rest of the world, and sad that this has to happen. But the vast majority weren't even that. Just straight up nationalist, repeatedly saying that they had to do something or they would be destroyed by the west. And insisting that Ukraine belonged to Russia. Absolutely no-one denied the facts as far as the toll on human life or the destruction of Ukraine, and not a single person thought its a "special operation" instead of a war. I heard a lot of what seems to me to be extreme paranoia about NATO, America, and Nazis just waiting for an opportunity to invade and destroy them. The whole experience has been kind of shocking to me. I went into this believing that Russians where like innocent captives of evil politicians and oligarchs and had no idea what was going on. But based on the conversations I've had, that is not the case at all. They know exactly what is going on as far as the cost in human lives, and believe it's necessary to ensure their own survival.

sorokod 5y ago
> They know exactly what is going on as far as the cost in human lives Do they? Do they know how many Russians have been killed so far?
- packet_nerd 5y ago
  I haven't really talked to anyone who's contested the fact that thousands of Russian soldiers and Russian speaking Ukrainian civilians have been killed.
  - sorokod 5y ago
    That was at trick question, Russian MoD doesn't publish those numbers.
Moru 5y ago
I think you need to watch this one[0], it's an explanation of what you are seeing. In general, that is the propaganda doing it's job. It's similar to all countries, we all have our propaganda and our view of our situation in the world. Russias is the classical "It's us against them! And we are surrounded by our enemies!". I'm sure North Korea is about the same only worse. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw