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The terraform changes just seem so unprofessional and a prime example of virtue-signaling.

pavlov 5y ago
I agree about it being unprofessional. But does "virtue signalling" now mean simply any form of protest? Were the Canadian truckers protesting in Ottawa virtue signalling? Are people posting "Let's Go Brandon" online also virtue signalling? If not, what's the difference between their form of protest and this Terraform stunt?
- _jal 5y ago
  > If not, what's the difference Political valence. It is a term a certain flavor of culture warrior likes to employ in attempts to devalue public statements by their opponents.
  - ghostpepper 5y ago
    Like all politically-charged terms, the original meaning has been long lost as the context in which it was coined is forgotten. I think the term ‘virtue signalling’ was originally intended to point out a perceived hypocrisy - that it’s much easier to gain public support for an idea/cause/campaign if that campaign is perceived to be helping some disenfranchised group - even if the campaign also benefits the organizer, and even if the campaign is not necessarily wanted by some or even all of the allegedly-aggrieved group.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    It did start out that way (an attack by conservatives against progressives) but has since become ubiquitous. It just refers to immaterial forms of protest that don't accomplish anything except signaling support for a cause.
- ksjnq 5y ago
- teddyh 5y ago
  I believe “virtue signalling” means any form of protest which will not, and does not really try to, have any actual effect on that which it protests against. Any small actor protesting and boycotting something which they are unlikely to affect and even come into contact with, therefore qualifies. The protest is not done to affect any real change, only to signal virtue.
- asoneth 5y ago
  My understanding is that "virtue signaling" implies that the primary goal is performative with minimal personal risk and minimal commitment to productive action. The example that comes to mind is a company that spends far more money informing the public of their charitable works than they do on the works themselves. So an in-person march, trucker protest, sit-ins, having a private conversation, calling your representative, making personal sacrifices, attempting to bring attention to lesser-known issues, donating money, engaging in dialog to convince someone of your position, etc would not be virtue signaling. But things like posting "Let's Go Brandon" online, or changing your profile picture with no further action, or unironically using terms like "virtue signaling" for internet points might qualify as virtue signaling.
  - monkeybutton 5y ago
    What would you classify wearing poppies around remembrance day as?
    - asoneth 5y ago
      Good question. I think it would on the motivation of the wearer. If if they are wearing it primarily as a method of socially fitting in and signaling to those around them then it might be "virtue signaling". If they would continue to wear a poppy on remembrance day in contexts where the people around them did not know what it meant then there's clearly something more than signaling going on. Perhaps it is their tradition, or it helps them remember. (I should caveat that I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with social signaling so I don't use the term "virtue signaling" as it seems to have a pejorative or sarcastic connotation.)
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - tedunangst 5y ago
      Remembering?
    - Turing_Machine 5y ago
      At least here in the United States, those are usually sold by charities that benefit various veteran's organizations, so there's some actual skin in the game there.
- JulianChastain 5y ago
  The goals/motivations of the action is what matters here. Changing a few lines of code to state your stance on an issue won't cause any level of change whatsoever. It was clearly done to show which side of the war the author supported, more about the author than the conflict. A Canadian protestor that spent most of the time publishing their involvement on social media is virtue signaling, but one that merely occupied the capital is not. Saying "Let's go Brandon" is virtue signaling, unless the signal is meant only for your group, then it is dog whistling
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
  My personal sense of the word is that “virtue signaling” is when people intentionally seek recognition from a group by visibly supporting something that group already endorses or considers normal. Going a step further, the support is often exaggerated, not totally sincere, or not congruent with that person’s previous behavior. There is also a sense that whatever thing someone is “virtue signaling” about is acceptable enough that there is no real downside for taking the stance. It would be like an American proudly declaring how much he loves the United States on Independence Day. He would go out of his way to emphasize just how much of a patriot he is, hoping to be rewarded for doing so.
  - soundnote 5y ago
    This is one of the best nutshell definitions I've ever read.
- sharkjacobs 5y ago
  If you support a cause, "virtue signal" describes an action which doesn't do a lot to materially support the cause, to encourage people to take more concrete action. If you oppose a cause, "virtue signal" is a term of denigration for any public action on behalf of the cause to discourage people showing support for it.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  When you protest something not because you care, but in order to signal that you care it is virtual signal (literally, you are trying to signal your virtue). When you protest for gay rights in 2020 it is a virtue signal. When you protest for gay rights in 1987, it is because you believe in it and are willing to take the cost of it. Since public trade companies only care about money, when those companies support some course it has become safe enough that it is now virtue signalling.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    > When you protest for gay rights in 2020 it is a virtue signal. I don’t think this is the case; it’s still legal to discriminate on the basis of sexuality in many states and contexts such as housing in the United States. You may not be able to fire someone for being gay but in many places you can evict them for it. Additionally I don’t think it’s virtue signaling to protest for gay rights beyond the small number of countries that recognize marriage. There are still countries where gay behavior is illegal, marriage isn’t recognized, and gay panic is a legal defense.
- LudwigNagasena 5y ago
  I think it means something like grandstanding and slacktivism.
- kodah 5y ago
  I think people virtue signal when they dominate conversation with pet political topics. This is especially evident if they continually find non-sequitur ways to include moral and pet topics in regular conversation. I don't think that either of the examples you've brought up are virtue signaling, but introducing the topic of Starbucks cups to redirect a conversation into how "the country has lost its way" is a good example. An example of this on the left is how certain folks will redirect any conversation into one about oppression. The impact of virtue signalling is pretty evident. Ever seen how in order to make a statement on something you have to first identify yourself as part of that something that you're criticising? That's a direct byproduct of virtue signaling. More or less, it's a form of manipulation.
- aaron695 5y ago
McP 5y ago
Accusing people of virtue signalling is a prime example of virtue-signaling. But really I don't know your motivations and you don't know the motivations of the Terraform folks. Let's be a bit more humble please. But yes, I also find it unprofessional.

I agree about it being unprofessional. But does "virtue signalling" now mean simply any form of protest? Were the Canadian truckers protesting in Ottawa virtue signalling? Are people posting "Let's Go Brandon" online also virtue signalling? If not, what's the difference between their form of protest and this Terraform stunt?

_jal 5y ago
> If not, what's the difference Political valence. It is a term a certain flavor of culture warrior likes to employ in attempts to devalue public statements by their opponents.
- ghostpepper 5y ago
  Like all politically-charged terms, the original meaning has been long lost as the context in which it was coined is forgotten. I think the term ‘virtue signalling’ was originally intended to point out a perceived hypocrisy - that it’s much easier to gain public support for an idea/cause/campaign if that campaign is perceived to be helping some disenfranchised group - even if the campaign also benefits the organizer, and even if the campaign is not necessarily wanted by some or even all of the allegedly-aggrieved group.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  It did start out that way (an attack by conservatives against progressives) but has since become ubiquitous. It just refers to immaterial forms of protest that don't accomplish anything except signaling support for a cause.
ksjnq 5y ago
teddyh 5y ago
I believe “virtue signalling” means any form of protest which will not, and does not really try to, have any actual effect on that which it protests against. Any small actor protesting and boycotting something which they are unlikely to affect and even come into contact with, therefore qualifies. The protest is not done to affect any real change, only to signal virtue.
asoneth 5y ago
My understanding is that "virtue signaling" implies that the primary goal is performative with minimal personal risk and minimal commitment to productive action. The example that comes to mind is a company that spends far more money informing the public of their charitable works than they do on the works themselves. So an in-person march, trucker protest, sit-ins, having a private conversation, calling your representative, making personal sacrifices, attempting to bring attention to lesser-known issues, donating money, engaging in dialog to convince someone of your position, etc would not be virtue signaling. But things like posting "Let's Go Brandon" online, or changing your profile picture with no further action, or unironically using terms like "virtue signaling" for internet points might qualify as virtue signaling.
- monkeybutton 5y ago
  What would you classify wearing poppies around remembrance day as?
  - asoneth 5y ago
    Good question. I think it would on the motivation of the wearer. If if they are wearing it primarily as a method of socially fitting in and signaling to those around them then it might be "virtue signaling". If they would continue to wear a poppy on remembrance day in contexts where the people around them did not know what it meant then there's clearly something more than signaling going on. Perhaps it is their tradition, or it helps them remember. (I should caveat that I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with social signaling so I don't use the term "virtue signaling" as it seems to have a pejorative or sarcastic connotation.)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - tedunangst 5y ago
    Remembering?
  - Turing_Machine 5y ago
    At least here in the United States, those are usually sold by charities that benefit various veteran's organizations, so there's some actual skin in the game there.
JulianChastain 5y ago
The goals/motivations of the action is what matters here. Changing a few lines of code to state your stance on an issue won't cause any level of change whatsoever. It was clearly done to show which side of the war the author supported, more about the author than the conflict. A Canadian protestor that spent most of the time publishing their involvement on social media is virtue signaling, but one that merely occupied the capital is not. Saying "Let's go Brandon" is virtue signaling, unless the signal is meant only for your group, then it is dog whistling
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
My personal sense of the word is that “virtue signaling” is when people intentionally seek recognition from a group by visibly supporting something that group already endorses or considers normal. Going a step further, the support is often exaggerated, not totally sincere, or not congruent with that person’s previous behavior. There is also a sense that whatever thing someone is “virtue signaling” about is acceptable enough that there is no real downside for taking the stance. It would be like an American proudly declaring how much he loves the United States on Independence Day. He would go out of his way to emphasize just how much of a patriot he is, hoping to be rewarded for doing so.
- soundnote 5y ago
  This is one of the best nutshell definitions I've ever read.
sharkjacobs 5y ago
If you support a cause, "virtue signal" describes an action which doesn't do a lot to materially support the cause, to encourage people to take more concrete action. If you oppose a cause, "virtue signal" is a term of denigration for any public action on behalf of the cause to discourage people showing support for it.
tomjen3 5y ago
When you protest something not because you care, but in order to signal that you care it is virtual signal (literally, you are trying to signal your virtue). When you protest for gay rights in 2020 it is a virtue signal. When you protest for gay rights in 1987, it is because you believe in it and are willing to take the cost of it. Since public trade companies only care about money, when those companies support some course it has become safe enough that it is now virtue signalling.
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  > When you protest for gay rights in 2020 it is a virtue signal. I don’t think this is the case; it’s still legal to discriminate on the basis of sexuality in many states and contexts such as housing in the United States. You may not be able to fire someone for being gay but in many places you can evict them for it. Additionally I don’t think it’s virtue signaling to protest for gay rights beyond the small number of countries that recognize marriage. There are still countries where gay behavior is illegal, marriage isn’t recognized, and gay panic is a legal defense.
LudwigNagasena 5y ago
I think it means something like grandstanding and slacktivism.
kodah 5y ago
I think people virtue signal when they dominate conversation with pet political topics. This is especially evident if they continually find non-sequitur ways to include moral and pet topics in regular conversation. I don't think that either of the examples you've brought up are virtue signaling, but introducing the topic of Starbucks cups to redirect a conversation into how "the country has lost its way" is a good example. An example of this on the left is how certain folks will redirect any conversation into one about oppression. The impact of virtue signalling is pretty evident. Ever seen how in order to make a statement on something you have to first identify yourself as part of that something that you're criticising? That's a direct byproduct of virtue signaling. More or less, it's a form of manipulation.
aaron695 5y ago

McP 5y ago

Accusing people of virtue signalling is a prime example of virtue-signaling. But really I don't know your motivations and you don't know the motivations of the Terraform folks. Let's be a bit more humble please. But yes, I also find it unprofessional.