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Sen. Warren Announces Sanctions Compliance Bill for Crypto Companies

50 points by perihelions 5y ago

jmeister 5y ago
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Right!!!! This isn’t even about Russia, it’s about mandatory $10k disclosure disguised as an unactionable political theater.
  - boring_twenties 5y ago
    Forget about the $10k disclosure, this clueless antique wants to make you liable for running a node, or contributing to an open source blockchain project.
    - lern_too_spel 5y ago
      It doesn't make you liable for contributing to an open source Blockchain project, but as a node, you are not allowed to put transactions from sanctioned individuals in your new block or include new blocks that have auch transactions in your chain, causing a fork. This seems utterly reasonable, and Warren appears to understand cryptocurrencies better than the people holding cryptocurrencies. In practice, if there are more nodes not under this law than that are under this law, nodes under this law would shut down, reducing energy usage in the US.
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        Sorry, blockchains don’t work that way. We ain’t forking for senator Karen. She can fork off. It does not seem reasonable in the slightest. There is no way to know a transaction is forbidden. Anyway, this technology was invented so tyrants have no power here. You will take my node from my cold dead hands!
        lern_too_spel 5y ago
        You can believe they don't, but the fact is that they do, and if this law passes, you will suffer the consequences of breaking the law if you run a noncompliant node, just as you would suffer the consequences of running a noncompliant bank. Blockchains don't magically make you above the law.
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        lern_too_spel 5y ago
        There is a difference between being ahead of the law and being above the law. The former just means the law hasn't caught up to regulating a scammer. The latter means the law is incapable of regulating a scammer. The people duped into the decentralized cryptocurrency scam have mistakenly believed that cryptocurrencies fall into the latter category. First China and now the US are correcting that misconception.
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        I get it, you think it’s all a scam. You are free to believe that. The thousands of BTC nodes running in china right now beg to differ. I actually expect china to do a 180 degree policy shift mid year 2022. The law is incapable of regulating a system like Bitcoin. This is by design. I know you don’t like that, but the cypherpunks know their enemy. The only misconception is thinking anyone can law this technology away. Only math and physics matters. The law is just human noise.
        lern_too_spel 5y ago
        Centralized banks also run on math and physics, yet the law regulates them. This bill clearly explains how it will work, and you have provided no reason for why it wouldn't. China used to run more than half of all Bitcoin nodes. Now it's already less than 1% and dropping. The only reason it is still that high is that they haven't bothered to start enforcement yet. China has to deal with financial fraud just as much as any other large country, so there is no reason to expect they will deregulate cryptocurrencies or any other financial instruments.
      - boring_twenties 5y ago
        Nodes don't make new blocks, miners do that. And neither nodes nor miners have any way of knowing whether any given transaction involves a sanctioned entity or not.
        lern_too_spel 5y ago
        Pedantically, mining nodes are a subset of all nodes. Of course miners will know whether transaction involve a sanctioned entity. These wallets will be listed. Mining nodes in the US will not be allowed to put UTXOs that originate from those wallets in new blocks.
littlecranky67 5y ago
Surely crypto exchanges must be regulated to avoid russian money bypassing the sanctions. But just a quick reminder that Deutsche Bank was convicted and fined of laundering $10bn using the traditional banking system [0], and stock swaps in particular. Yes, this is whataboutism at its finest, but I just don't like the narrative some politicians establish around crypto being a prime source of money laundering. [0]: https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-fine-russia-money-laundering/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-...
IAmWorried 5y ago
Not a huge crypto fan, but Sen. Warren is just the most shrill, condescending, hypocritical politician imaginable, who seems to have no emotion other than outrage. I hate nearly everything that comes out of her mouth. Whatever plan she has, I probably support the exact opposite.
- threads2 5y ago
  Ever since she cravenly smeared Bernie during the Democratic primaries (insinuating he's sexist) I've had a hard time considering her a good-faith actor. That being said, if you've never looked into it, you should read about how the Obama administration neutered her role in the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. I think most anyone would have a hard time disagreeing with her take on the 2007-2008 banking crisis - and you might find the contrast between suave and shrill less... signifying.
moron123 5y ago
All experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

50 points by perihelions 5y ago

randomhodler84 5y ago
Right!!!! This isn’t even about Russia, it’s about mandatory $10k disclosure disguised as an unactionable political theater.
- boring_twenties 5y ago
  Forget about the $10k disclosure, this clueless antique wants to make you liable for running a node, or contributing to an open source blockchain project.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    It doesn't make you liable for contributing to an open source Blockchain project, but as a node, you are not allowed to put transactions from sanctioned individuals in your new block or include new blocks that have auch transactions in your chain, causing a fork. This seems utterly reasonable, and Warren appears to understand cryptocurrencies better than the people holding cryptocurrencies. In practice, if there are more nodes not under this law than that are under this law, nodes under this law would shut down, reducing energy usage in the US.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Sorry, blockchains don’t work that way. We ain’t forking for senator Karen. She can fork off. It does not seem reasonable in the slightest. There is no way to know a transaction is forbidden. Anyway, this technology was invented so tyrants have no power here. You will take my node from my cold dead hands!
      - lern_too_spel 5y ago
        You can believe they don't, but the fact is that they do, and if this law passes, you will suffer the consequences of breaking the law if you run a noncompliant node, just as you would suffer the consequences of running a noncompliant bank. Blockchains don't magically make you above the law.
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        lern_too_spel 5y ago
        There is a difference between being ahead of the law and being above the law. The former just means the law hasn't caught up to regulating a scammer. The latter means the law is incapable of regulating a scammer. The people duped into the decentralized cryptocurrency scam have mistakenly believed that cryptocurrencies fall into the latter category. First China and now the US are correcting that misconception.
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        I get it, you think it’s all a scam. You are free to believe that. The thousands of BTC nodes running in china right now beg to differ. I actually expect china to do a 180 degree policy shift mid year 2022. The law is incapable of regulating a system like Bitcoin. This is by design. I know you don’t like that, but the cypherpunks know their enemy. The only misconception is thinking anyone can law this technology away. Only math and physics matters. The law is just human noise.
        lern_too_spel 5y ago
        Centralized banks also run on math and physics, yet the law regulates them. This bill clearly explains how it will work, and you have provided no reason for why it wouldn't. China used to run more than half of all Bitcoin nodes. Now it's already less than 1% and dropping. The only reason it is still that high is that they haven't bothered to start enforcement yet. China has to deal with financial fraud just as much as any other large country, so there is no reason to expect they will deregulate cryptocurrencies or any other financial instruments.
    - boring_twenties 5y ago
      Nodes don't make new blocks, miners do that. And neither nodes nor miners have any way of knowing whether any given transaction involves a sanctioned entity or not.
      - lern_too_spel 5y ago
        Pedantically, mining nodes are a subset of all nodes. Of course miners will know whether transaction involve a sanctioned entity. These wallets will be listed. Mining nodes in the US will not be allowed to put UTXOs that originate from those wallets in new blocks.

Surely crypto exchanges must be regulated to avoid russian money bypassing the sanctions. But just a quick reminder that Deutsche Bank was convicted and fined of laundering $10bn using the traditional banking system [0], and stock swaps in particular. Yes, this is whataboutism at its finest, but I just don't like the narrative some politicians establish around crypto being a prime source of money laundering. [0]: https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-fine-russia-money-laundering/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-...

IAmWorried 5y ago

Not a huge crypto fan, but Sen. Warren is just the most shrill, condescending, hypocritical politician imaginable, who seems to have no emotion other than outrage. I hate nearly everything that comes out of her mouth. Whatever plan she has, I probably support the exact opposite.

threads2 5y ago
Ever since she cravenly smeared Bernie during the Democratic primaries (insinuating he's sexist) I've had a hard time considering her a good-faith actor. That being said, if you've never looked into it, you should read about how the Obama administration neutered her role in the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. I think most anyone would have a hard time disagreeing with her take on the 2007-2008 banking crisis - and you might find the contrast between suave and shrill less... signifying.

moron123 5y ago

All experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.