6 ms·

Isn't privacy, security and freedom the hole idea of firefox? As of my understanding, firefox, contrary of chrome and Edge, is really commited on privacy.

Comevius 5y ago
Firefox's default settings are optimized for usability and not breaking websites. For privacy and security some of that must be sacrificed. The Tor Browser, LibreWolf and arkenfox user.js all make Firefox less usable, or not usable at all in some cases.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  If I can't use site X using a secure browser, it's site X that's broken, not the browser. There's billions of websites, and only a few browsers. If a site doesn't want me to visit it, I'll just find another site.
thinkmassive 5y ago
“Each Firefox download has a unique identifier” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30715163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30715163
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  Can you explain WHY that matters?
  - ranguna 5y ago
    The linked post has a lot of useful info that will answer your question on more that 1 way. Give it a read.
- everdrive 5y ago
  But does that identifier ever get transmitted anywhere? How is this unique identifier used to track me?
  - vondur 5y ago
    Look at the highest comment on that thread from car_analogy, he lays out a plausible scenario at what the consequences of Mozilla tracking downloads could be.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      Except that scenario is not plausible at all. Why would you be downloading a network installer only to move it with USB to another supposedly "secure" machine just so THAT machine can then do the downloading part instead of just downloading the binary on that machine in the first place? Secondly who is downloading Firefox binaries off of Mozzilla website for a "secure" machine? That only happens if you are running Windows and at that point your pants are already soiled. Most plausible is that some IT department would have same installer on all the machines and then Mozzilla would know that all these machines belong to same organization, but if your IT department is running network installer for every instance for Firefox they install then please fire your IT department. Literally all this info does is to tell Mozzilla that you installed a Firefox or if you are some kind of weirdo who moves some 10kb web installer from friend to friend to install Firefox they might know that all these people at some level know each other, but again this only applies to Windows users. I just don't understand why HN is making this out to be some Firefox killer.
      - SubiculumCode 5y ago
        and instead, they move to a totally untested unknown fork like LibreFox who is ran by who exactly? Almost sounds like an intelligence operation.
      - pmontra 5y ago
        Why Mozzilla with two z?
  - digisign 5y ago
    There's only a few use cases for a unique identifier, zero for one that is never used.
- Iolaum 5y ago
  If you are using Windows [which is where the above applies], does that firefox download token make a difference to your privacy?
- 28304283409234 5y ago
  Kids, please start using Debian again. apt-get install firefox
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    THIS is why Debian exists.
  - perihelions 5y ago
    I think that one's only on sid (unstable). For the rest of us it'd be apt install firefox-esr
- RupertHandjob 5y ago
  Thank you. I am done with Firefox. I switched to Chrome on Windows and Safari on IOS. There is no point of using Firefox when they do all kinds of shady and bullshit things.
nunobrito 5y ago
Yeah, not really. That's only minimally possible with a whole lot of plugins that should be added there by default, plus removing the fingerprint function.
hutzlibu 5y ago
Default config of Firefox include advertisement and "participate in studies". That means intense tracking. You can disable all of that garbage, but most do not even know, that it exists and is enabled by default (along with telemetry).
- chasil 5y ago
  Does Firefox Focus (for Android) do the same? It does have a "Send usage data" option that is enabled by default. There is also a "Studies" option which I had not seen before. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-opt-out-studies-firefox-focus-android https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-opt-out-studies-fir...
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "There is also a "Studies" option which I had not seen before." Yup. This sort of behavior, of where stuff like this just creeps in with an update, is why I would never consider donating to mozilla at its current shape. (along with the fact, that they continue to reduce engineers, but increase the CEO salary, despite marketshare is falling)
    - RupertHandjob 5y ago
      I switched to Chrome on Windows today. Mozilla is a trainwreck. They reportedly get $350M-450$ million per year from Google. Is that not enough to make a fucking browser and stop firing engineers every year? Mozilla does only their bullshit outreachy and woke bullshit instead of focusing on their only product that matter. I don't really care if their engineers are women, trans, non-binary, black, hispanic, indian etc. All I wanted a top notch browser that's not based on chromium, but that was too much to ask. I miss the old Mozilla when they made the New York Times ad with their donors names on there. Mozilla lost another user...I guess is time to increase their CEOs salary!
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  You have to ask yourself what is more important to you having to do couple option changes, but keeping the browser up to date and secure or having sane(r) defaults, but lacking behind in security updates. Yes, I'm sure the author does their best, but I doubt this is their day job. Meaning if there is an update during working hours he might not get to update his fork until several hours later or if he is on vacation it might be days or weeks. What happens when he abandons the project? Usually the fork projects wind down after some time and there is no indication for the users that they are using abandonware with God knows how many missing security patches. Of course there is ideal world where we wouldn't have to make these choices, but at least I am going to stick with Firefox until something actually bad happens.

Comevius 5y ago

Firefox's default settings are optimized for usability and not breaking websites. For privacy and security some of that must be sacrificed. The Tor Browser, LibreWolf and arkenfox user.js all make Firefox less usable, or not usable at all in some cases.

denton-scratch 5y ago
If I can't use site X using a secure browser, it's site X that's broken, not the browser. There's billions of websites, and only a few browsers. If a site doesn't want me to visit it, I'll just find another site.

thinkmassive 5y ago

“Each Firefox download has a unique identifier” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30715163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30715163

nextlevelwizard 5y ago
Can you explain WHY that matters?
- ranguna 5y ago
  The linked post has a lot of useful info that will answer your question on more that 1 way. Give it a read.
everdrive 5y ago
But does that identifier ever get transmitted anywhere? How is this unique identifier used to track me?
- vondur 5y ago
  Look at the highest comment on that thread from car_analogy, he lays out a plausible scenario at what the consequences of Mozilla tracking downloads could be.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    Except that scenario is not plausible at all. Why would you be downloading a network installer only to move it with USB to another supposedly "secure" machine just so THAT machine can then do the downloading part instead of just downloading the binary on that machine in the first place? Secondly who is downloading Firefox binaries off of Mozzilla website for a "secure" machine? That only happens if you are running Windows and at that point your pants are already soiled. Most plausible is that some IT department would have same installer on all the machines and then Mozzilla would know that all these machines belong to same organization, but if your IT department is running network installer for every instance for Firefox they install then please fire your IT department. Literally all this info does is to tell Mozzilla that you installed a Firefox or if you are some kind of weirdo who moves some 10kb web installer from friend to friend to install Firefox they might know that all these people at some level know each other, but again this only applies to Windows users. I just don't understand why HN is making this out to be some Firefox killer.
    - SubiculumCode 5y ago
      and instead, they move to a totally untested unknown fork like LibreFox who is ran by who exactly? Almost sounds like an intelligence operation.
    - pmontra 5y ago
      Why Mozzilla with two z?
- digisign 5y ago
  There's only a few use cases for a unique identifier, zero for one that is never used.
Iolaum 5y ago
If you are using Windows [which is where the above applies], does that firefox download token make a difference to your privacy?
28304283409234 5y ago
Kids, please start using Debian again. apt-get install firefox
- goodpoint 5y ago
  THIS is why Debian exists.
- perihelions 5y ago
  I think that one's only on sid (unstable). For the rest of us it'd be apt install firefox-esr
RupertHandjob 5y ago
Thank you. I am done with Firefox. I switched to Chrome on Windows and Safari on IOS. There is no point of using Firefox when they do all kinds of shady and bullshit things.

nunobrito 5y ago

Yeah, not really. That's only minimally possible with a whole lot of plugins that should be added there by default, plus removing the fingerprint function.

hutzlibu 5y ago

Default config of Firefox include advertisement and "participate in studies". That means intense tracking. You can disable all of that garbage, but most do not even know, that it exists and is enabled by default (along with telemetry).

chasil 5y ago
Does Firefox Focus (for Android) do the same? It does have a "Send usage data" option that is enabled by default. There is also a "Studies" option which I had not seen before. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-opt-out-studies-firefox-focus-android https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-opt-out-studies-fir...
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "There is also a "Studies" option which I had not seen before." Yup. This sort of behavior, of where stuff like this just creeps in with an update, is why I would never consider donating to mozilla at its current shape. (along with the fact, that they continue to reduce engineers, but increase the CEO salary, despite marketshare is falling)
  - RupertHandjob 5y ago
    I switched to Chrome on Windows today. Mozilla is a trainwreck. They reportedly get $350M-450$ million per year from Google. Is that not enough to make a fucking browser and stop firing engineers every year? Mozilla does only their bullshit outreachy and woke bullshit instead of focusing on their only product that matter. I don't really care if their engineers are women, trans, non-binary, black, hispanic, indian etc. All I wanted a top notch browser that's not based on chromium, but that was too much to ask. I miss the old Mozilla when they made the New York Times ad with their donors names on there. Mozilla lost another user...I guess is time to increase their CEOs salary!
nextlevelwizard 5y ago
You have to ask yourself what is more important to you having to do couple option changes, but keeping the browser up to date and secure or having sane(r) defaults, but lacking behind in security updates. Yes, I'm sure the author does their best, but I doubt this is their day job. Meaning if there is an update during working hours he might not get to update his fork until several hours later or if he is on vacation it might be days or weeks. What happens when he abandons the project? Usually the fork projects wind down after some time and there is no indication for the users that they are using abandonware with God knows how many missing security patches. Of course there is ideal world where we wouldn't have to make these choices, but at least I am going to stick with Firefox until something actually bad happens.