4 ms·

It occurs to me that optimal keyboard layouts depend primarily on use cases: by human language, by activity, and so on. I might well imagine that a Perl-optimiz

It occurs to me that optimal keyboard layouts depend primarily on use cases: by human language, by activity, and so on. I might well imagine that a Perl-optimized keyboard layout would look different than one intended for writing fiction, and so on.

eimrine 5y ago
I have not seen from your comment where is the difference between layouts for different activities. Isn't Programmer Dvorak enough optimized for Perl? Because for writing some graphomania any Dvorak fits just perfect. I can not even imagine a reason for having several different layouts for same Latin letters.
- MayeulC 5y ago
  APL has had dedicated keyboard layouts since its inception, but that might be a bit unusual. If you lisp, you might want easily accessible parenthesis. In C, semicolon is useful. Bash uses dollar and sharp a lot.
- OJFord 5y ago
  Presumably not Latin letters so much as special chars used in the language syntax. I suppose there's room for optimisation in Latin chars used in keywords (if applicable) too though.
mormegil 5y ago
That reminds me of keyboard heat maps for programming languages: https://g-liu.com/blog/2013/09/reblog-programming-languages-by-heatmap/ https://g-liu.com/blog/2013/09/reblog-programming-languages-... (the winner being, obviously, LISP :-))
- tgvaughan 5y ago
  Really cool, but these heatmaps seem to be compiled from source code. I wonder how much the _actual_ distribution of keys pressed would differ. (I use paredit to write scheme code, and I'm assuming IDEs would skew the distribution in other languages.)
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  LISP really stands out for the parens. If I was primarily a LISP programmer, instead of an occasional Emacs tinkerer, then I'd be tempted to to put the parens on the g and h keys.
gotaquestion 5y ago
It also doesn't consider two-key combinations, which are key for developers (not just EMACS folks). Apple's CMD-C/CMD-V is one of the least ergonomic patterns I've encountered in keyboard design compared to CTRL-C/CTRL-V. Yes, I know you can remap keys from within macOS, but it is a nightmare if you are using VNC + Windows Remote to access other machines (granted, that isn't a common use case, but it is mine). Pinky-C/Pinky-V/Pinky-Esc is a valid pattern for I would guess lots of developers who were raised on Atom/Sublime/VSCode.
- a_e_k 5y ago
  On a standard keyboard with Ctrl keys in the corner, I don't even need to reach for them with my pinkies; I just roll my hand slightly and mash it with the upper part of the palm below the pinky.
bclnr 5y ago
I have compared keyboard layouts over several (human, European) languages, and it doesn't vary that much in practice: https://github.com/bclnr/kb-layout-evaluation https://github.com/bclnr/kb-layout-evaluation

eimrine 5y ago

I have not seen from your comment where is the difference between layouts for different activities. Isn't Programmer Dvorak enough optimized for Perl? Because for writing some graphomania any Dvorak fits just perfect. I can not even imagine a reason for having several different layouts for same Latin letters.

MayeulC 5y ago
APL has had dedicated keyboard layouts since its inception, but that might be a bit unusual. If you lisp, you might want easily accessible parenthesis. In C, semicolon is useful. Bash uses dollar and sharp a lot.
OJFord 5y ago
Presumably not Latin letters so much as special chars used in the language syntax. I suppose there's room for optimisation in Latin chars used in keywords (if applicable) too though.

mormegil 5y ago

That reminds me of keyboard heat maps for programming languages: https://g-liu.com/blog/2013/09/reblog-programming-languages-by-heatmap/ https://g-liu.com/blog/2013/09/reblog-programming-languages-... (the winner being, obviously, LISP :-))

tgvaughan 5y ago
Really cool, but these heatmaps seem to be compiled from source code. I wonder how much the _actual_ distribution of keys pressed would differ. (I use paredit to write scheme code, and I'm assuming IDEs would skew the distribution in other languages.)
jonnycomputer 5y ago
LISP really stands out for the parens. If I was primarily a LISP programmer, instead of an occasional Emacs tinkerer, then I'd be tempted to to put the parens on the g and h keys.

gotaquestion 5y ago

It also doesn't consider two-key combinations, which are key for developers (not just EMACS folks). Apple's CMD-C/CMD-V is one of the least ergonomic patterns I've encountered in keyboard design compared to CTRL-C/CTRL-V. Yes, I know you can remap keys from within macOS, but it is a nightmare if you are using VNC + Windows Remote to access other machines (granted, that isn't a common use case, but it is mine). Pinky-C/Pinky-V/Pinky-Esc is a valid pattern for I would guess lots of developers who were raised on Atom/Sublime/VSCode.

a_e_k 5y ago
On a standard keyboard with Ctrl keys in the corner, I don't even need to reach for them with my pinkies; I just roll my hand slightly and mash it with the upper part of the palm below the pinky.

bclnr 5y ago

I have compared keyboard layouts over several (human, European) languages, and it doesn't vary that much in practice: https://github.com/bclnr/kb-layout-evaluation https://github.com/bclnr/kb-layout-evaluation