4 ms·

Because it's emblematic of laymen without understanding of medicine both demanding treatment with no evidence behind it and claiming the establishment NOT provi

Because it's emblematic of laymen without understanding of medicine both demanding treatment with no evidence behind it and claiming the establishment NOT providing it is evidence of some vast, many-tentacled conspiracy. However, one of your comments shows the true problem. It's not FOR the media to decide. Murdoch may disagree but the media is just reflecting the establishment. You can argue about the effectiveness of said establishments because they're all dysfunctional, like any organization of any size, but to claim that we should just throw away scientific process in anathema to modern society. There were multiple reports of people refusing treatment (and, of course, vaccines before that) because they wanted ivermectin. Prior to that, people poisoning themselves with household products due to Trump's careless speculation on treatment. It's ironic as those who don't trust vaccines seem to flock to the medical advice of those without any training. The backlash has never been primarily about the dangers of ivermectin specifically, but the rejection of established protocol, scientific procedure and basically everything that humanity has moved forward with in the past century or so.

sixothree 5y ago
The worst part of this is that we _know_ how to prevent covid. But the people insisting on their right to use ivermectin were the same people insisting they needed to take zero personal responsibility to prevent themselves from getting covid in the first place.
the_af 5y ago
> It's ironic as those who don't trust vaccines seem to flock to the medical advice of those without any training. This is a trend I've observed in proponents of New Age alternative "medicine", way before COVID. They can simultaneously believe that Western medicine is "unproven" or a "hoax", and that doctors are "untrustworthy" and "big pharma" wants you to buy unproven stuff, and no amount of qualifications will convince them. Yet they have no trouble believing Bach flower remedies will cure anything, they follow homeopathy religiously, and it's enough evidence that some healer is the real deal because they heard someone at the grocery store say so and she seemed like such a nice person. Or some TV celebrity said so, and why would he lie?
- bb88 5y ago
  There's a lot of blame to go around here that doesn't only belong in the New Age alternative medicine cult. (Crystals and such are clearly fraudulent) Last I checked colloidal silver was being sold by a christian evangelist named Jim Bakker. Then there's chiropractors. Then there was the anti-vaxxers. Then the "vitamins will cure anything under the sun." Then there was things like "all-herbal fen phen" and other herbal products. Then there's that famous goop company led by a has been actress which has some questionable products, but sold to housewives. Oh and the entire premise of homeopathic medicine is a fraud. And then FDA approved drugs like fen phen (Wyeth) which should not have made it to market some how did, and caused heart valve problems. Hell, when you think about it, what the fuck exactly is holy water which is used by the Catholic church? If you can dupe people into the premise that "Magical Things are Real", then it becomes easy to take their money away from them. And right now, it doesn't seem too hard to do these days.
  - the_af 5y ago
    Agreed it's not exclusive to New Age beliefs, though my point wasn't exactly about the specific delusions ("I can cure anything with this diluted tincture of petals") but about the completely irrational standards of proof. They cannot find a way to trust the opinion of professionals ("they are lying", "they pay them to say so", "the evidence is faked", "they want to control us", "this has toxic stuff they won't tell you about") but if the nice woman at the grocery store tells them her niece went to a healer who has a "holistic" method of curing migrane/the flu/covid/cancer then suddenly it's "it must work, don't be narrow minded!". I would understand if they were always mistrustful of everything: the government, big pharma, the woman at the grocery store, anecdotes from coworkers. But no, their mistrust is weirdly selective.
loceng 5y ago
Do you think it's possible you're arrogant, along with biased only presented with information that fits the narrative you've been conditioned to, and so that you're more in the layperson group than not? For example, this article mentioning the research immediately should have a red flag for anyone that knows what the actual protocols that work/are being used for Ivermectin as 1) a preventative are, and 2) different protocol in hospital treatment - the moment you read that this trial only provided 3 days of Ivermectin once having symptoms (and where everyone involved has severe comorbidities - so improper protocol followed, inadequate dosing of Ivermectin will result in the worst outcome/non-effectiveness signal possible). You think established protocol has been adequately applied or applied with integrity when it comes to the mRNA injections? Do you also think there's zero chance of influence or manipulation by for-profit medical industrial complex? Honest questions. Edit to add: Ah yes, the lazy-dopamine rewarding downvote instead of engaging in discussion and critical thinking - the ideologues' wet dream and downfall of an intellectually evolving society.

sixothree 5y ago

The worst part of this is that we _know_ how to prevent covid. But the people insisting on their right to use ivermectin were the same people insisting they needed to take zero personal responsibility to prevent themselves from getting covid in the first place.

the_af 5y ago

> It's ironic as those who don't trust vaccines seem to flock to the medical advice of those without any training. This is a trend I've observed in proponents of New Age alternative "medicine", way before COVID. They can simultaneously believe that Western medicine is "unproven" or a "hoax", and that doctors are "untrustworthy" and "big pharma" wants you to buy unproven stuff, and no amount of qualifications will convince them. Yet they have no trouble believing Bach flower remedies will cure anything, they follow homeopathy religiously, and it's enough evidence that some healer is the real deal because they heard someone at the grocery store say so and she seemed like such a nice person. Or some TV celebrity said so, and why would he lie?

bb88 5y ago
There's a lot of blame to go around here that doesn't only belong in the New Age alternative medicine cult. (Crystals and such are clearly fraudulent) Last I checked colloidal silver was being sold by a christian evangelist named Jim Bakker. Then there's chiropractors. Then there was the anti-vaxxers. Then the "vitamins will cure anything under the sun." Then there was things like "all-herbal fen phen" and other herbal products. Then there's that famous goop company led by a has been actress which has some questionable products, but sold to housewives. Oh and the entire premise of homeopathic medicine is a fraud. And then FDA approved drugs like fen phen (Wyeth) which should not have made it to market some how did, and caused heart valve problems. Hell, when you think about it, what the fuck exactly is holy water which is used by the Catholic church? If you can dupe people into the premise that "Magical Things are Real", then it becomes easy to take their money away from them. And right now, it doesn't seem too hard to do these days.
- the_af 5y ago
  Agreed it's not exclusive to New Age beliefs, though my point wasn't exactly about the specific delusions ("I can cure anything with this diluted tincture of petals") but about the completely irrational standards of proof. They cannot find a way to trust the opinion of professionals ("they are lying", "they pay them to say so", "the evidence is faked", "they want to control us", "this has toxic stuff they won't tell you about") but if the nice woman at the grocery store tells them her niece went to a healer who has a "holistic" method of curing migrane/the flu/covid/cancer then suddenly it's "it must work, don't be narrow minded!". I would understand if they were always mistrustful of everything: the government, big pharma, the woman at the grocery store, anecdotes from coworkers. But no, their mistrust is weirdly selective.

loceng 5y ago

Do you think it's possible you're arrogant, along with biased only presented with information that fits the narrative you've been conditioned to, and so that you're more in the layperson group than not? For example, this article mentioning the research immediately should have a red flag for anyone that knows what the actual protocols that work/are being used for Ivermectin as 1) a preventative are, and 2) different protocol in hospital treatment - the moment you read that this trial only provided 3 days of Ivermectin once having symptoms (and where everyone involved has severe comorbidities - so improper protocol followed, inadequate dosing of Ivermectin will result in the worst outcome/non-effectiveness signal possible). You think established protocol has been adequately applied or applied with integrity when it comes to the mRNA injections? Do you also think there's zero chance of influence or manipulation by for-profit medical industrial complex? Honest questions. Edit to add: Ah yes, the lazy-dopamine rewarding downvote instead of engaging in discussion and critical thinking - the ideologues' wet dream and downfall of an intellectually evolving society.