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Like every other day, I was shopping this morning at my local bakery in Warsaw, Poland. As I was packing my purchases, a woman next in line after me ordered cof

Like every other day, I was shopping this morning at my local bakery in Warsaw, Poland. As I was packing my purchases, a woman next in line after me ordered coffee in Ukrainian. (We have it lucky. Polish and Ukrainian are mutually intelligible to some extent, which enables basic communication even without knowing each other's languages.) I said, to no one in particular, "Do widzenia, слава Україні" as I was leaving. She reciprocated the customary "Героям слава" in an obviously moved voice. Small things matter. We need to support each other in every possible way. Donating helps, so does showing solidarity, and so does spreading the word. Будь в безпеці, zverok. Our thoughts are with you all.

xwdv 5y ago
He roughly said “See you, glory to Ukraine” and she replied “Glory to the Heroes!!” Be safe!!
- ilyich 5y ago
  The modern response "Heroiam slava!" (Glory to the heroes!) appeared in the 1930s among members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). [0] The greeting "Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!" became an official slogan of Stepan Bandera's Nazi allied OUN-B in April 1941. OUN actively participated in holocaust and other atrocities during WW2. [1] In other words, he roughly said "See you, Heil Hitler!" and she replied "Sieg Heil!" Be safe!! Take care of yourselves!! [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_to_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_to_Ukraine [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ukrainian_Nati...
  - thrw-awy0010010 5y ago
  - chupy 5y ago
    It's quite ridiculous but are you trying to insinuate that she was a Nazi? By the same logic you are applying does it mean that everyone that uses the phrase Allahu Akbar (God is great) is also a terrorist?
    - xwdv 5y ago
      It depends on the context. If you are on a bus and someone randomly stands and shouts Allahu Akbar, it would strike terror into those around them, so yes they could be a sort of terrorist, even if they aren’t actually about to blow themselves up. But if you’re in a mosque, it’s not unusual to hear it exclaimed.
    - ilyich 5y ago
      What I am trying to explain is that "Slava Ukraine! Heroyam Slava!" is a direct calque from the German "Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil!". "Slava" literally means "Heil" ("hail" in English). "Hitler" is replaced with "Ukraine" and "Sieg" (victory) with "Heroyam" (heroes). This salute was coined and popularized by Ukrainian Nazi collaborators during WW2. Now it's up to you to decide whether everyone that uses the phrase Heil Hitler (Long live Hitler) is also a Nazi or not.
      - kbelder 5y ago
        The people using it get to decide, and they obviously have, since they're not.
      - chupy 5y ago
        Let's be frank here, both of us know what you are implying. Cutting excerpts of wikipedia without the context is a pretty valid disinformation tactic. Replacing words randomly also to suit your previous point is ridiculous. Glory to the heroes of the country is also pretty common in the army in Romania, there is even a famous monument with this written on it: "Intru slava eroilor neamului" which means To the glory to the heroes of the nation. This monument was built after the first world war.
  - kemitchell 5y ago
    "Glory to Russia" ("Слава России") is the name of a national series of patriotic children's contests supported by the President's Fund for Cultural Initiatives: https://www.deti-rossia.ru/ https://www.deti-rossia.ru/. It obviously does not compare to "Heil Hitler". "Eternal glory to heroes of the Great Patriotic War" ("Вечная слава героям ВОВ") is a common refrain in Russian remembrance of WWII. You will see it on signs and on TV around memorial holidays. It obviously does not compare to "sieg heil". Russia also had a nationalist movement that collaborated at times with the Nazis, the Russian Liberation Army. And Russian nationalists have attempted to rehabilitate their leader, General Vlasov, since the fall of the USSR, much as Ukrainian nationalists have Stepan Bandera.
    - ilyich 5y ago
      Yes, you're right. But there's a slight difference. No street, square, bridge etc. in Russia is named after Vlasov. And there are no monuments to Vlasov in Russia. Also Putin never said that praising a Nazi war criminal as a national hero is a normal and cool thing. Zelensky: "There are indisputable heroes. Stepan Bandera is a hero for a certain part of Ukrainians, and this is a normal and cool thing." [0] [0] - https://www.unian.info/politics/10521105-zelensky-on-bandera-ukrainians-should-also-praise-modern-day-heroes.html https://www.unian.info/politics/10521105-zelensky-on-bandera...
      - kemitchell 5y ago
        Equating "Слава Украине!" and "Героям слава!" with "Heil Hitler!" and "Sieg heil!" was wrong, and you knew it.
  - kbelder 5y ago
    Yeah, and the 'ok' symbol means you're a white pride neo-nazi, right?
paganel 5y ago
On that topic, it's really interesting how presumably small things that nobody focuses on in particular can really make a difference (for good) for people in very dire circumstances (like the refugees are). For example over here in Bucharest (from where I'm from) I've started seeing lots and lots of Ukrainian mothers taking their kids for a walk in downtown Bucharest relying only on their mobile phone's map apps. What makes that possible is the smartphone itself, which, however bad-talked as a technology piece is really helpful when you're hundreds/thousands of kms away from your actual home, plus free voice and data plans that were provided by the local telecom companies to all Ukrainian refugees. Again, I know it's not much (after all, many of the Ukrainians who remained at home face the much more dire prospect of actual Russian bombs) but imo I think that it's important that as a refugee mother with your kids after you in a foreign country you sort of gain the autonomy of respecting your daily ritual of walking with your kid(s) without being assisted by anyone else. This "stickiness" to normalcy (like walking your kids unassisted in a foreign city where you've just arrived one or two days prior while escaping war) it's what also makes life worth living, in a way.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  Not only that, also having to power up their devices, and something like internet is a key to entertainment and information for children. If they wouldn't have smartphones, they'd ask for directions, and also directions are already there as well. But with it, there's a whole lot more possible, without having to rely on external factors (except data connection perhaps, as well as having the map loaded up). It makes me wonder if an old smartphone is a good donation to a refugee.
ilyich 5y ago
- Twixes 5y ago
  Wołyń was horrific, but the Ukrainian people today are quite obviously not the same people as the banderites 80 years ago, the world has changed much since then. This rhetoric only serves Putin's interests, who must be quite displeased with how accepting Poles are of Ukrainian refugees. PS I do wonder why your Polish is broken, it should be "banderowców którzy", not "banderówców które"
- p_l 5y ago
  Because they are "not the same banderites". The modern use of the slogan managed to get heavily rehabilitated over years, also it originated considerably before conflicts (increased by polish fascists who effectively took over sanation government) led to massacres (which happened both ways, and similarly current polish government essentially does the same thing as Ukraine with Stepan Bandera, arguably longer - it started before they got into full power). And well, we're next if Ukraine falls, or such is the feeling among considerable portion of polish people. Even pure self-interest makes it clear which way our support is going.

xwdv 5y ago

He roughly said “See you, glory to Ukraine” and she replied “Glory to the Heroes!!” Be safe!!

ilyich 5y ago
The modern response "Heroiam slava!" (Glory to the heroes!) appeared in the 1930s among members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). [0] The greeting "Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!" became an official slogan of Stepan Bandera's Nazi allied OUN-B in April 1941. OUN actively participated in holocaust and other atrocities during WW2. [1] In other words, he roughly said "See you, Heil Hitler!" and she replied "Sieg Heil!" Be safe!! Take care of yourselves!! [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_to_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_to_Ukraine [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ukrainian_Nati...
- thrw-awy0010010 5y ago
- chupy 5y ago
  It's quite ridiculous but are you trying to insinuate that she was a Nazi? By the same logic you are applying does it mean that everyone that uses the phrase Allahu Akbar (God is great) is also a terrorist?
  - xwdv 5y ago
    It depends on the context. If you are on a bus and someone randomly stands and shouts Allahu Akbar, it would strike terror into those around them, so yes they could be a sort of terrorist, even if they aren’t actually about to blow themselves up. But if you’re in a mosque, it’s not unusual to hear it exclaimed.
  - ilyich 5y ago
    What I am trying to explain is that "Slava Ukraine! Heroyam Slava!" is a direct calque from the German "Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil!". "Slava" literally means "Heil" ("hail" in English). "Hitler" is replaced with "Ukraine" and "Sieg" (victory) with "Heroyam" (heroes). This salute was coined and popularized by Ukrainian Nazi collaborators during WW2. Now it's up to you to decide whether everyone that uses the phrase Heil Hitler (Long live Hitler) is also a Nazi or not.
    - kbelder 5y ago
      The people using it get to decide, and they obviously have, since they're not.
    - chupy 5y ago
      Let's be frank here, both of us know what you are implying. Cutting excerpts of wikipedia without the context is a pretty valid disinformation tactic. Replacing words randomly also to suit your previous point is ridiculous. Glory to the heroes of the country is also pretty common in the army in Romania, there is even a famous monument with this written on it: "Intru slava eroilor neamului" which means To the glory to the heroes of the nation. This monument was built after the first world war.
- kemitchell 5y ago
  "Glory to Russia" ("Слава России") is the name of a national series of patriotic children's contests supported by the President's Fund for Cultural Initiatives: https://www.deti-rossia.ru/ https://www.deti-rossia.ru/. It obviously does not compare to "Heil Hitler". "Eternal glory to heroes of the Great Patriotic War" ("Вечная слава героям ВОВ") is a common refrain in Russian remembrance of WWII. You will see it on signs and on TV around memorial holidays. It obviously does not compare to "sieg heil". Russia also had a nationalist movement that collaborated at times with the Nazis, the Russian Liberation Army. And Russian nationalists have attempted to rehabilitate their leader, General Vlasov, since the fall of the USSR, much as Ukrainian nationalists have Stepan Bandera.
  - ilyich 5y ago
    Yes, you're right. But there's a slight difference. No street, square, bridge etc. in Russia is named after Vlasov. And there are no monuments to Vlasov in Russia. Also Putin never said that praising a Nazi war criminal as a national hero is a normal and cool thing. Zelensky: "There are indisputable heroes. Stepan Bandera is a hero for a certain part of Ukrainians, and this is a normal and cool thing." [0] [0] - https://www.unian.info/politics/10521105-zelensky-on-bandera-ukrainians-should-also-praise-modern-day-heroes.html https://www.unian.info/politics/10521105-zelensky-on-bandera...
    - kemitchell 5y ago
      Equating "Слава Украине!" and "Героям слава!" with "Heil Hitler!" and "Sieg heil!" was wrong, and you knew it.
- kbelder 5y ago
  Yeah, and the 'ok' symbol means you're a white pride neo-nazi, right?

paganel 5y ago

On that topic, it's really interesting how presumably small things that nobody focuses on in particular can really make a difference (for good) for people in very dire circumstances (like the refugees are). For example over here in Bucharest (from where I'm from) I've started seeing lots and lots of Ukrainian mothers taking their kids for a walk in downtown Bucharest relying only on their mobile phone's map apps. What makes that possible is the smartphone itself, which, however bad-talked as a technology piece is really helpful when you're hundreds/thousands of kms away from your actual home, plus free voice and data plans that were provided by the local telecom companies to all Ukrainian refugees. Again, I know it's not much (after all, many of the Ukrainians who remained at home face the much more dire prospect of actual Russian bombs) but imo I think that it's important that as a refugee mother with your kids after you in a foreign country you sort of gain the autonomy of respecting your daily ritual of walking with your kid(s) without being assisted by anyone else. This "stickiness" to normalcy (like walking your kids unassisted in a foreign city where you've just arrived one or two days prior while escaping war) it's what also makes life worth living, in a way.

Fnoord 5y ago
Not only that, also having to power up their devices, and something like internet is a key to entertainment and information for children. If they wouldn't have smartphones, they'd ask for directions, and also directions are already there as well. But with it, there's a whole lot more possible, without having to rely on external factors (except data connection perhaps, as well as having the map loaded up). It makes me wonder if an old smartphone is a good donation to a refugee.

ilyich 5y ago

Twixes 5y ago
Wołyń was horrific, but the Ukrainian people today are quite obviously not the same people as the banderites 80 years ago, the world has changed much since then. This rhetoric only serves Putin's interests, who must be quite displeased with how accepting Poles are of Ukrainian refugees. PS I do wonder why your Polish is broken, it should be "banderowców którzy", not "banderówców które"
p_l 5y ago
Because they are "not the same banderites". The modern use of the slogan managed to get heavily rehabilitated over years, also it originated considerably before conflicts (increased by polish fascists who effectively took over sanation government) led to massacres (which happened both ways, and similarly current polish government essentially does the same thing as Ukraine with Stepan Bandera, arguably longer - it started before they got into full power). And well, we're next if Ukraine falls, or such is the feeling among considerable portion of polish people. Even pure self-interest makes it clear which way our support is going.