4 ms·

When I've seen "old hands" change jobs, the thing I often see them struggle with is the psychology of no longer being the domain expert. People underestimate ho

by jghn 5y ago

When I've seen "old hands" change jobs, the thing I often see them struggle with is the psychology of no longer being the domain expert. People underestimate how much deep knowledge they possess that is specific to their company. The longer the tenure, the more this is true. And most/all of it will be useless at a new place. This is not a bad thing. And it is a good thing to branch out and see a broader perspective. But it's hard to prepare one's self going from being the person that knows everything about everything to being the person that knows nothing about anything.

a1445c8b 5y ago
This is true for me even though I haven’t lasted more than 3 years for each of my previous 3 employers. Domain knowledge, it seems to me, is the hardest to get up to speed on because you can’t google or SO that sh*t!
- mooreds 5y ago
  Totally. All you can do is soak up internal documentation and map prior knowledge to your current situation. On the other hand, that new perspective can have value. Sometimes things are the way they are for a reason, other times it's path dependent, other times it's inertia. Taking notes with your "new eyes" and thinking about how to improve things can help. But don't share until you've had some successes and built some credibility.
  - a1445c8b 5y ago
    > But don't share until you've had some successes and built some credibility. +1 to this. A lot of young engineers stumble on this part. Heck even I stumble in this part every now and then.
jonnycomputer 5y ago
I hadn't considered this, but it rings true to me. Interesting to think about.
Xenoamorphous 5y ago
On the other hand it must feel relieving.
meowfly 5y ago
This strikes home for me. I moved jobs recently after being at my last company for 10 years. I felt pretty overwhelmed at the beginning. Everything from the tech, deployment process, style guide, PR process, etc might have to be relearned. I had consolidated a lot of access at my old company too. I was really worried that I wasn't producing like I should at my seniority. This has since gone away though.
- k8rboi 5y ago
  > I was really worried that I wasn't producing like I should at my seniority. This has since gone away though. Absolutely had this in my new role, I'm about to hit a year on and have an excellent performance review which has since assuaged my concerns of imposter syndrome or having lost my touch after spending two years in a public-sector hellhole. Went from "Star QB" in an MS shop to "Holy Shit WTF is this Kubernetes shit even doing and how do I get my job done." Stressed as I may have been, it was temporal and I've gotten good lessons from it. If I have any takeaways from this past year: For Managers: Add in some amount of check-in one-on-ones to keep folks aware of their performance and standing. As good a manager as my supervisor is, ours were oriented towards ensuring I was happy with the role and not wanting to leave quickly and waste the 30K recruiter fee. For that matter, I'm not one[0] to go seek validation from others and especially not when they're already over burdened with "real" meetings. For Engineers: Even if you're not "Senior" in terms of $TECHNOLOGY, you're (hopefully) Senior in terms of your soft-skills. If you're left scratching your head wondering "how the fuck do I get this deployed" or "what the fuck is the development cycle" or "why the fuck is there an 11 step baby-sitting process for the local development workflow" - these are opportunities to add in documentation, scripts, or process changes to the firm. If you've done your shopping right, they're probably amenable to these changes. Personally, I scripted our local Docker Compose development workflow such that one has a clean-slate environment with one script, and can build and patch any project's Docker image / Docker Compose service with one script as well. Somehow we lacked this, but everyone had their cotdamn minds blown when I put that out there for feedback - and here I was thinking it was some silly scripts they'd likely turn their nose up at.
  - walterlb 5y ago
sbayeta 5y ago
This is what makes me really undecided about switching jobs. I've been working in the same domain for almost 20 years. I think I'm a very competent SWE, but I also think my domain knowledge is what really impress my customers.
- mr_beans 5y ago
  Can you do the job with your eyes closed at this point? 20 years is a long investment to throw away, why not just ride it out the rest of the way and use your spare energy and money to do stuff on the side.
  - saalweachter 5y ago
    If everyone was a tourist, there'd be no local culture to experience. If you're happy where you are, stay there. Don't get too high and mighty, learn what you can from the people passing from one domain to another without staying in one spot too long, but don't feel pressured to do what they do as if you are missing out on an essential experience of life.
rcfox 5y ago
I've struggled with this in every job change, even after my first job of 1.5 years: I owned my own little project, and in that tiny corner of the company, I was the expert. Going from being an expert to onboarding again feels like being forced to speak a new language. You know you're smart, but you can't articulate it.
neophyt3 5y ago
"People underestimate how much deep knowledge they possess that is specific to their company." This is very narrow deep knowledge which might not be useful in most organization and may not be applicable to other jobs
heisenbit 5y ago
The old domain thing is totally worthless for a while until it is abstracted and linked to the new domain. Then it becomes gold when carefully used.
vmception 5y ago
> people underestimate how much deep knowledge they possess that is specific to their company ha! yes acronyms people think are just known are completely different. founders at a new company just throw them around willy nilly because they fawn over some specific person's books and tweetstorm's for the last 5 years. cultish metrics you or they happen to believe in because they heard Google did it once, 10 years ago. you name it. Enjoy!
nickm12 5y ago
This was very true for me, switching jobs after six years where I had become a domain expert. There is definitely a psychological aspect that makes it difficult—you feel awkward being the noob when you're used to being the expert. There is also just a plain skills gap—you apply your skills differently as an expert than a noob and so you will need to relearn to operate in that new context. When switching jobs, I looked for something that was different, but not so different that I would be overwhelmed. I was still a bit overwhelmed. I think it took me almost two years to reach my "comfort zone" again. It was worth it though. I built up a lot of new ways of thinking about things that I never would have had I stayed with my original job.

by jghn 5y ago

a1445c8b 5y ago

This is true for me even though I haven’t lasted more than 3 years for each of my previous 3 employers. Domain knowledge, it seems to me, is the hardest to get up to speed on because you can’t google or SO that sh*t!

mooreds 5y ago
Totally. All you can do is soak up internal documentation and map prior knowledge to your current situation. On the other hand, that new perspective can have value. Sometimes things are the way they are for a reason, other times it's path dependent, other times it's inertia. Taking notes with your "new eyes" and thinking about how to improve things can help. But don't share until you've had some successes and built some credibility.
- a1445c8b 5y ago
  > But don't share until you've had some successes and built some credibility. +1 to this. A lot of young engineers stumble on this part. Heck even I stumble in this part every now and then.

jonnycomputer 5y ago

I hadn't considered this, but it rings true to me. Interesting to think about.

Xenoamorphous 5y ago

On the other hand it must feel relieving.

meowfly 5y ago

This strikes home for me. I moved jobs recently after being at my last company for 10 years. I felt pretty overwhelmed at the beginning. Everything from the tech, deployment process, style guide, PR process, etc might have to be relearned. I had consolidated a lot of access at my old company too. I was really worried that I wasn't producing like I should at my seniority. This has since gone away though.

k8rboi 5y ago
> I was really worried that I wasn't producing like I should at my seniority. This has since gone away though. Absolutely had this in my new role, I'm about to hit a year on and have an excellent performance review which has since assuaged my concerns of imposter syndrome or having lost my touch after spending two years in a public-sector hellhole. Went from "Star QB" in an MS shop to "Holy Shit WTF is this Kubernetes shit even doing and how do I get my job done." Stressed as I may have been, it was temporal and I've gotten good lessons from it. If I have any takeaways from this past year: For Managers: Add in some amount of check-in one-on-ones to keep folks aware of their performance and standing. As good a manager as my supervisor is, ours were oriented towards ensuring I was happy with the role and not wanting to leave quickly and waste the 30K recruiter fee. For that matter, I'm not one[0] to go seek validation from others and especially not when they're already over burdened with "real" meetings. For Engineers: Even if you're not "Senior" in terms of $TECHNOLOGY, you're (hopefully) Senior in terms of your soft-skills. If you're left scratching your head wondering "how the fuck do I get this deployed" or "what the fuck is the development cycle" or "why the fuck is there an 11 step baby-sitting process for the local development workflow" - these are opportunities to add in documentation, scripts, or process changes to the firm. If you've done your shopping right, they're probably amenable to these changes. Personally, I scripted our local Docker Compose development workflow such that one has a clean-slate environment with one script, and can build and patch any project's Docker image / Docker Compose service with one script as well. Somehow we lacked this, but everyone had their cotdamn minds blown when I put that out there for feedback - and here I was thinking it was some silly scripts they'd likely turn their nose up at.
- walterlb 5y ago

sbayeta 5y ago

This is what makes me really undecided about switching jobs. I've been working in the same domain for almost 20 years. I think I'm a very competent SWE, but I also think my domain knowledge is what really impress my customers.

mr_beans 5y ago
Can you do the job with your eyes closed at this point? 20 years is a long investment to throw away, why not just ride it out the rest of the way and use your spare energy and money to do stuff on the side.
- saalweachter 5y ago
  If everyone was a tourist, there'd be no local culture to experience. If you're happy where you are, stay there. Don't get too high and mighty, learn what you can from the people passing from one domain to another without staying in one spot too long, but don't feel pressured to do what they do as if you are missing out on an essential experience of life.

rcfox 5y ago

I've struggled with this in every job change, even after my first job of 1.5 years: I owned my own little project, and in that tiny corner of the company, I was the expert. Going from being an expert to onboarding again feels like being forced to speak a new language. You know you're smart, but you can't articulate it.

neophyt3 5y ago

"People underestimate how much deep knowledge they possess that is specific to their company." This is very narrow deep knowledge which might not be useful in most organization and may not be applicable to other jobs

heisenbit 5y ago

The old domain thing is totally worthless for a while until it is abstracted and linked to the new domain. Then it becomes gold when carefully used.

vmception 5y ago

> people underestimate how much deep knowledge they possess that is specific to their company ha! yes acronyms people think are just known are completely different. founders at a new company just throw them around willy nilly because they fawn over some specific person's books and tweetstorm's for the last 5 years. cultish metrics you or they happen to believe in because they heard Google did it once, 10 years ago. you name it. Enjoy!

nickm12 5y ago

This was very true for me, switching jobs after six years where I had become a domain expert. There is definitely a psychological aspect that makes it difficult—you feel awkward being the noob when you're used to being the expert. There is also just a plain skills gap—you apply your skills differently as an expert than a noob and so you will need to relearn to operate in that new context. When switching jobs, I looked for something that was different, but not so different that I would be overwhelmed. I was still a bit overwhelmed. I think it took me almost two years to reach my "comfort zone" again. It was worth it though. I built up a lot of new ways of thinking about things that I never would have had I stayed with my original job.