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This is very interesting, but I can’t help but feel that a glass bottle with a metal cap (and one of those Dutch condiment spatulas) would be just fine for all

This is very interesting, but I can’t help but feel that a glass bottle with a metal cap (and one of those Dutch condiment spatulas) would be just fine for all these applications and also be more easily and effectively reused and recycled. I re-use jam jars for food storage, drinking glasses, mini herb gardens, etc. and could incorporate bottles, jars, and other glass containers into a variety of needs around the house if they were designed with second and third lives in mind. Add in health effects of microplastics/chemical leaching and glass is again a winner. Transportation costs and breakage are perhaps higher, but maybe that’s a cost we should accept?

KennyBlanken 5y ago
That sound you heard was me rolling my eyes at the bunch of nonsense they started off with, which seemed sucked straight from the mouth of a plastics industry PR lackey. The squeeze nipple thingy is pretty brilliant, but an ecological disaster.
- thomasguide 5y ago
  As a cook I find the squeeze actually sort of frustrating. Sometimes it usefully delivers the right amount of ketchup (or mustard, or whatever) to its destination; mostly it splatters. In any case I still have to use a knife to spread it around. Solving the leaky bottle upside down problem is too narrow a focus.
  - jhugo 5y ago
    The trick is to give the bottle a vigorous single shake before opening it, so the air is at the end away from the nozzle. Then there's no splattering.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    McDonalds does that with cardridges in a (don't know the exact word) squeeze gun, and it mostly comes out in the same volume. They also had funnels for ketchup and mustard, where you pushed once, and got more or less the same amounts per push.
panta 5y ago
> Transportation costs and breakage are perhaps higher, but maybe that’s a cost we should accept? I suspect that transportation and breakage costs are higher only because we don't account for externalities when considering plastic: in other words producers don't sustain the full costs and are effectively subsidized by the society at large and the environment (through increased healthcare spending, lower QOL, higher obesity rates, lower fertility, and other environmental costs that will be sustained by future generations).
- thomasguide 5y ago
  Yes, this is a good point. Plastic is cheap because producers don’t pay the true costs. There are externalities with glass too (think shattered bottles in public spaces) but my feeling is they’re fewer and less earth-destroying.
- nightski 5y ago
  Glass has externalities as well. If all transportation weight is significantly higher that is going to have a large impact on global warming until we switch to clean transportation which to be frank is a long ways off if we are being honest.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    Meat, plastics, metals, gas, everything that generates greenhouse gases in significant amounts has to become costlier so people consume it less. It's been proven time after time that we won't reduce emissions by appealing to the social conscience of people and corporations, but everybody obeys economic measures.
tremon 5y ago
and one of those Dutch condiment spatulas For reference, I assume you mean a bottle scraper here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_scraper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_scraper They're not specifically intended for condiments (most jam jars are low and wide enough that they can be scraped with a spoon), but for storing more viscous liquids in larger glass (milk) bottles, like yoghurt or vla.
- sizzle 5y ago
  Wow where has this been all my life?!? So much wasted product thrown away in bottles
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    So many nearly empty Nutella jars have died for nothing.
LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
You know? Maybe a few dozen standard sized and broad/wide necked tops made out of laboratory grade glass would do. That stuff is almost indestructible and does not leach or take on anything in the concentrations used for food/drink stuff. Not even tea or coffee stains! So there is the question of the returns. Why returning when you could have a refill machine in store which could clean them fast in safe ways before refilling? For anything more than a few bottles, use reusable kegs and plug them into an appliance at home? Or those watercooler canisters? I recently saw milk in a plastic bag again, like it has been about 40 years ago? Interestingly that bag wasn't sloppy or wobbly at all, because on one side it had a handle, which felt like it was inflated with something, which made it stiff. Still one time use only, though less material.
- thomasguide 5y ago
  Plastic American-style milk bottles are funnily enough one of the only easily recycled plastics, if I am remembering correctly. Standardized glass containers would be useful, although in some ways already exist (mason jars usually accept common lids, for instance). What we need is a shift in mentality away from a plastic-first approach. “I’ve got one word for you kid: glass.”
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    > Plastic American-style milk bottles are funnily enough one of the only easily recycled plastics, if I am remembering correctly. I don't know about the recyclability of those plastics, but I wouldn't be surprised. They're basically two pieces of plastic screwed together without any seal, and it works well enough!
- 9dev 5y ago
  For reference, this is what we do with beer bottles in Germany. There’s two standard bottle types which you can return to shops, which take any brand, as long as it’s the standard type. They return them to a cleaning facility which distributes them back to the breweries (extremely simplified, there’s lots of details like a mandatory deposit on reusable bottles consumers pay to incentivise returning them to stores). But basically, bottles get reused as long as they’re usable. It works quite well!
spiffytech 5y ago
I remember when ketchup came in glass bottles and you had to use a knife to get it out. I'm much happier with the squeeze bottle era. I like reusability, but I also like things not being a pain to use.

KennyBlanken 5y ago

That sound you heard was me rolling my eyes at the bunch of nonsense they started off with, which seemed sucked straight from the mouth of a plastics industry PR lackey. The squeeze nipple thingy is pretty brilliant, but an ecological disaster.

thomasguide 5y ago
As a cook I find the squeeze actually sort of frustrating. Sometimes it usefully delivers the right amount of ketchup (or mustard, or whatever) to its destination; mostly it splatters. In any case I still have to use a knife to spread it around. Solving the leaky bottle upside down problem is too narrow a focus.
- jhugo 5y ago
  The trick is to give the bottle a vigorous single shake before opening it, so the air is at the end away from the nozzle. Then there's no splattering.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  McDonalds does that with cardridges in a (don't know the exact word) squeeze gun, and it mostly comes out in the same volume. They also had funnels for ketchup and mustard, where you pushed once, and got more or less the same amounts per push.

panta 5y ago

> Transportation costs and breakage are perhaps higher, but maybe that’s a cost we should accept? I suspect that transportation and breakage costs are higher only because we don't account for externalities when considering plastic: in other words producers don't sustain the full costs and are effectively subsidized by the society at large and the environment (through increased healthcare spending, lower QOL, higher obesity rates, lower fertility, and other environmental costs that will be sustained by future generations).

thomasguide 5y ago
Yes, this is a good point. Plastic is cheap because producers don’t pay the true costs. There are externalities with glass too (think shattered bottles in public spaces) but my feeling is they’re fewer and less earth-destroying.
nightski 5y ago
Glass has externalities as well. If all transportation weight is significantly higher that is going to have a large impact on global warming until we switch to clean transportation which to be frank is a long ways off if we are being honest.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  Meat, plastics, metals, gas, everything that generates greenhouse gases in significant amounts has to become costlier so people consume it less. It's been proven time after time that we won't reduce emissions by appealing to the social conscience of people and corporations, but everybody obeys economic measures.

tremon 5y ago

and one of those Dutch condiment spatulas For reference, I assume you mean a bottle scraper here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_scraper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_scraper They're not specifically intended for condiments (most jam jars are low and wide enough that they can be scraped with a spoon), but for storing more viscous liquids in larger glass (milk) bottles, like yoghurt or vla.

sizzle 5y ago
Wow where has this been all my life?!? So much wasted product thrown away in bottles
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  So many nearly empty Nutella jars have died for nothing.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago

You know? Maybe a few dozen standard sized and broad/wide necked tops made out of laboratory grade glass would do. That stuff is almost indestructible and does not leach or take on anything in the concentrations used for food/drink stuff. Not even tea or coffee stains! So there is the question of the returns. Why returning when you could have a refill machine in store which could clean them fast in safe ways before refilling? For anything more than a few bottles, use reusable kegs and plug them into an appliance at home? Or those watercooler canisters? I recently saw milk in a plastic bag again, like it has been about 40 years ago? Interestingly that bag wasn't sloppy or wobbly at all, because on one side it had a handle, which felt like it was inflated with something, which made it stiff. Still one time use only, though less material.

thomasguide 5y ago
Plastic American-style milk bottles are funnily enough one of the only easily recycled plastics, if I am remembering correctly. Standardized glass containers would be useful, although in some ways already exist (mason jars usually accept common lids, for instance). What we need is a shift in mentality away from a plastic-first approach. “I’ve got one word for you kid: glass.”
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  > Plastic American-style milk bottles are funnily enough one of the only easily recycled plastics, if I am remembering correctly. I don't know about the recyclability of those plastics, but I wouldn't be surprised. They're basically two pieces of plastic screwed together without any seal, and it works well enough!
9dev 5y ago
For reference, this is what we do with beer bottles in Germany. There’s two standard bottle types which you can return to shops, which take any brand, as long as it’s the standard type. They return them to a cleaning facility which distributes them back to the breweries (extremely simplified, there’s lots of details like a mandatory deposit on reusable bottles consumers pay to incentivise returning them to stores). But basically, bottles get reused as long as they’re usable. It works quite well!

spiffytech 5y ago

I remember when ketchup came in glass bottles and you had to use a knife to get it out. I'm much happier with the squeeze bottle era. I like reusability, but I also like things not being a pain to use.