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On terminology, why did you go with “wisdom” and not “knowledge” or even “art”. Same for “our ancestors” instead of “past people” for instance, especially on an
by makeitdouble 5y ago
On terminology, why did you go with “wisdom” and not “knowledge” or even “art”. Same for “our ancestors” instead of “past people” for instance, especially on an international forum ?
Pushing for negative or positive connotations feel both odd to me if the point is to evaluate a set of practices to apply to specific issues they could efficiently solve.
Also burnout can’t be a purely modern phenomenon. Scale might be different, but I can’t imagine it appear only a century ago for instance.
- ganzuul 5y agoThis was handed down in families as lore that helped them survive. It is the organic nature of the living tradition that makes it a wisdom teaching. You have your life thanks to this tradition. The positive connotation is the default mode of healing and 'magick'. It is the negative connotation that gets pushed, which is what leads to 'spirit possession': mental illness. People with burnout survive these days. That is new.
- simonh 5y agoPregnant women leaping over graves repeating rhymes (from the article) is wisdom that helped our ancestors survive? Ok. I'm fascinated by this stuff. I have shelves full of books on it, and occultism of various forms. It's fascinating, because it opens up a window into how people perceived the world, how they communicated with each other, and what they valued. It's 99% tosh though, and much of it is either dangerous and counterproductive, or often time wasting or an explicit scam. Charms and potions that couldn't possibly be what they were purported to be were rife. The history of the occult and witchcraft is as much a history of fleecing the gullible as it is of any kind of wisdom or philosophy. It's one of the reasons I find it so interesting, and the characters involved so colourful. Someone has a problem and you have, or want a reputation for wisdom? Make up a silly little ritual or charm and send them on their way. Everyone's happy.
- hutzlibu 5y agoWhether magic works in mystic ways, or not - it is also psychology. Placebo effect. A pregnant women close to freaking out, that does some ritual, she believes is helping - likely does help. More than her running in circles. (and with no modern medicine avaiable)
- ganzuul 5y agoWhy would I waste my time on someone as arrogant as you?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- makeitdouble 5y agoMy issue with this viewpoint is, it’s survivor bias in its purest form. We try our best to learn from history, and I think we can reasonably accept that the tradition that got perpetuated up until now might not be optimal, and is only “wisdom” until it’s widely proven wrong. Problem is, it can take centuries to finally accept that it was wrong (and boy do we have deeply wrong views of the world and humans, that took centuries to prove wrong, and we’re not there yet) That’s why I’m not fond of labelling tradition as “wisdom” when we should keep a critical view of it, and be open to chalenge these at any situation where it matters to not screw it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ganzuul 5y agoYou missed the selection bias of both the author and simonh homing in on something fanciful and eye-catching instead of something reasonable, and proceeding directly to extrapolate a tale of ignorance. - This is cynicism and not insightful.
- Dudeman112 5y agoMaybe they just felt like using linguistic flourishes that reflect their preferences? People aren't utility function maximisers. Even if lots of us like it dry that won't necessarily be their preferred way of communicating.
- simonh 5y agoSo you disagree with ganzuul's objection to the use of judgemental language, in this case describing these practices as superstition and supernatural?
- ganzuul 5y agoThen it meant that they didn't respect the subject they studied, so they obviously never had an intent to make a discovery. The subject matter is entirely opaque to a mind that dishonors everything it touches.
- burntoutfire 5y ago> Pushing for negative or positive connotations feel both odd to me if the point is to evaluate a set of practices to apply to specific issues they could efficiently solve. The point is, it's not just a set of practices" applied to "specific issues". It's a complex system of beliefs that ultimately result in living differently and being less susceptible to today's problems. "Wisdom" sounds like a fitting name for such system of beliefs.
- makeitdouble 5y agoGoing for the whole system of beliefs makes it a different proposition, where as you say we wouldn’t be trying to solve specific issues within our culture, but replace wholesale one’s individual culture with another. I think it extremely rarely happens (or it does in dramatic ways that few people survive), and instead we try to look at positive parts and cherry-pick them to merge into our own culture. The yogi example is not (I think) about moving to India and restarting one’s life as a yogi, but to cherry-pick some specific parts (fitness exercices and/or meditation techniques probably) and wedge them where it could fit in our modern life.
- ganzuul 5y agoThere is an impedance mismatch between the Indian yogic tradition and the West's ability to assimilate it. Theirs is a world onto itself and for us to get something out of it takes willpower. How this might ultimately manifest itself in the West could be demonstrated by e.g. the proposition of neuroenchantment.
- jsnodlin 5y ago