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This is why I applaud NK and Iran on their strategic maneuver to obtain nukes. My prediction is that there will be three types of states: The superpowers, neo-c

by _8j50 5y ago

This is why I applaud NK and Iran on their strategic maneuver to obtain nukes. My prediction is that there will be three types of states: The superpowers, neo-colonies that are ruled by a super-power's influence and countries that aren't a superpower but have nukes to preseve sovreignity. > Given these operational and technical limitations, the nuclear weapons in Ukrainian territory could simply not serve as an effective deterrent. Calling b.s. on that. There is nothing preventing them from safely storing the weapons at the time and slowly developing infrastructure to safely maintain and deploy them after refitting them. If it so happens that they get invaded before refitting them, unless nukes are used they can detonate them unsafely but strategically.

thevagrant 5y ago
You are right but I couldn't say I applaud the countries you mention. what worries me is the more countries that have nukes, the more likely someone crazy gets a chance to use them. If we think that some people commit suicide with violence against others, then surely someone with that mindset will gain power eventually? Hitler as an example, if he had the opportunity to push the button during his demise. I'm sure he would have.
- _8j50 5y ago
  Yes, nukes will be used in out lifetime. But even the worst of humans unless actually mentally ill and a leader of a nation at the same time self-preserve too much to mess with a MAD scenario. Even dictators like putin struggle getting their generals to support them and ruling a country after you nuke a city isn't pleasant. So yes, nukes will be used but I doubt it will be in a nuclear war or as a first resort.
jollybean 5y ago
The cynicism of 'either nuke or vassal' is completely wrong, equally the moral relativism of support for 'sovereign states' such as North Korea and the Islamic Theocracy of Iran is also wrong. Iran wants nukes to further destabilising and terrorise the ME. NK wants nukes to keep it's nation sized prison under total control. South Korea and Japan, both glaring examples that contradict your entire statement - do not have nukes and they are 'Good Places' not 'Vassals' of anyone.
- throwaways85989 5y ago
  Iran is the UK of the middle east. They want their empire back and cant have it, because alot of the other big empires cant have little pet-empires. It makes the game-board look messy. Ideology or religion does not factor into it on all related sides.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  > do not have nukes and they are 'Good Places' not 'Vassals' of anyone. Tell that to the Okinawans.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    Okinawans are Japanese, who overall absolutely want the support of the US. Thankfully, the deeply racist and xenophobic Okinawans who don't want white men around their daughters and who lack the broader context of understanding how important their overal security is ... don't get entirely to make the call entirely themselves. Or rather, if there were 'sovereign and independent' of both Japan and the US, they'd have to instantly reverse course and beg for the Americans and Japanese to come back in some form, lest they be completely controlled by China.
    - zardo 5y ago
      No US servicemen sexually assaulted women in Okinawa, and if they did, they were brought to justice. Don't even waste your time looking it up because there is nothing to see here.
- _8j50 5y ago
  South Korea and Japan are prime examples of vassal states. They have autonomy until their autonomy is a problem. They literally depend on a super-power's military on their land to keep them safe. If a country's economic and security wellbeing depends on another country then all policy making is subject to that other country's influence making it an indirect vassal state -- what I think is best called a neo-colony where domestic business is left alone but anything affecting geopolitics and foreign policy is far from an autonomous decision. > Iran wants nukes to further destabilising and terrorise the ME. NK wants nukes to keep it's nation sized prison under total control. Yes, and I don't support either nation one bit but they are a sovreign state and the very fact that you and many others in the west show support for overturning their government means your democratically elected governments are using their power and influence to turn them into neo-colonies by dictating their domestic activity as if they answer to you. We can hate bad governments all we want but if a nation is truly sovreign our opinions as outsiders shouldn't mean anything. A government's prime directive is to preserve sovreignity over its land and people which is why it can send soldiers to death to preserve these things. What is lacking from your disapproval of NK and Iran is an acknowledgement that they do not answer to you , your government or any other nation. You speak of Iran destabilizing ME fully knowing what the west has been doing there for over a century. At least Iran has security and religious ties to its neighbors. A sovreign nation has self-determination, they get to have horrible leaders and dictators, famines and civil wars as they do great leasers, prosperity and peace all of which is determined by the people whether through elections or violence. "At least we don't export revolutions" is the primary selling point of the CCP in africa and other places which is working wildly. I applauded NK and Iran because they preserved their sovreignity but I do hope their own people cause a change in regime but ultimately it is their country. The US has no business in NK vs SK conflict so I can't support that, but Iran is helping hezbollah which is a security risk for US and in that respect alone I support any type of aggression against them.

by _8j50 5y ago

thevagrant 5y ago

You are right but I couldn't say I applaud the countries you mention. what worries me is the more countries that have nukes, the more likely someone crazy gets a chance to use them. If we think that some people commit suicide with violence against others, then surely someone with that mindset will gain power eventually? Hitler as an example, if he had the opportunity to push the button during his demise. I'm sure he would have.

_8j50 5y ago
Yes, nukes will be used in out lifetime. But even the worst of humans unless actually mentally ill and a leader of a nation at the same time self-preserve too much to mess with a MAD scenario. Even dictators like putin struggle getting their generals to support them and ruling a country after you nuke a city isn't pleasant. So yes, nukes will be used but I doubt it will be in a nuclear war or as a first resort.

jollybean 5y ago

The cynicism of 'either nuke or vassal' is completely wrong, equally the moral relativism of support for 'sovereign states' such as North Korea and the Islamic Theocracy of Iran is also wrong. Iran wants nukes to further destabilising and terrorise the ME. NK wants nukes to keep it's nation sized prison under total control. South Korea and Japan, both glaring examples that contradict your entire statement - do not have nukes and they are 'Good Places' not 'Vassals' of anyone.

throwaways85989 5y ago
Iran is the UK of the middle east. They want their empire back and cant have it, because alot of the other big empires cant have little pet-empires. It makes the game-board look messy. Ideology or religion does not factor into it on all related sides.
DocTomoe 5y ago
> do not have nukes and they are 'Good Places' not 'Vassals' of anyone. Tell that to the Okinawans.
- jollybean 5y ago
  Okinawans are Japanese, who overall absolutely want the support of the US. Thankfully, the deeply racist and xenophobic Okinawans who don't want white men around their daughters and who lack the broader context of understanding how important their overal security is ... don't get entirely to make the call entirely themselves. Or rather, if there were 'sovereign and independent' of both Japan and the US, they'd have to instantly reverse course and beg for the Americans and Japanese to come back in some form, lest they be completely controlled by China.
  - zardo 5y ago
    No US servicemen sexually assaulted women in Okinawa, and if they did, they were brought to justice. Don't even waste your time looking it up because there is nothing to see here.
_8j50 5y ago
South Korea and Japan are prime examples of vassal states. They have autonomy until their autonomy is a problem. They literally depend on a super-power's military on their land to keep them safe. If a country's economic and security wellbeing depends on another country then all policy making is subject to that other country's influence making it an indirect vassal state -- what I think is best called a neo-colony where domestic business is left alone but anything affecting geopolitics and foreign policy is far from an autonomous decision. > Iran wants nukes to further destabilising and terrorise the ME. NK wants nukes to keep it's nation sized prison under total control. Yes, and I don't support either nation one bit but they are a sovreign state and the very fact that you and many others in the west show support for overturning their government means your democratically elected governments are using their power and influence to turn them into neo-colonies by dictating their domestic activity as if they answer to you. We can hate bad governments all we want but if a nation is truly sovreign our opinions as outsiders shouldn't mean anything. A government's prime directive is to preserve sovreignity over its land and people which is why it can send soldiers to death to preserve these things. What is lacking from your disapproval of NK and Iran is an acknowledgement that they do not answer to you , your government or any other nation. You speak of Iran destabilizing ME fully knowing what the west has been doing there for over a century. At least Iran has security and religious ties to its neighbors. A sovreign nation has self-determination, they get to have horrible leaders and dictators, famines and civil wars as they do great leasers, prosperity and peace all of which is determined by the people whether through elections or violence. "At least we don't export revolutions" is the primary selling point of the CCP in africa and other places which is working wildly. I applauded NK and Iran because they preserved their sovreignity but I do hope their own people cause a change in regime but ultimately it is their country. The US has no business in NK vs SK conflict so I can't support that, but Iran is helping hezbollah which is a security risk for US and in that respect alone I support any type of aggression against them.