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My major reactions while playing the game tended to follow a theme: Game: Mobile phone bill's due. Me: I have a mobile phone?? Game: Landlord w

by Dove 15y ago

My major reactions while playing the game tended to follow a theme: Game: Mobile phone bill's due. Me: I have a mobile phone?? Game: Landlord wants pet rent for the dog. Me: I have a dog?? Game: Car payment's due. Me: I have a CAR??? Game: How about some $60 internet? Me: How about the $20 non-broadband type? Game: You lost your car, so you lost your job. Me: No, see, that's why I paid extra to live close. We call them bikes.

zach 15y ago
A "let's gain empathy by playing being poor" game seems like a horrible idea overall. If it was a decent game and let you learn and succeed by smart choices, it would only give you a feeling of superiority to poor folks. If (as it does) it inflicts you with pre-existing poor decisions and random "the gods are angry" punishments, it seems to impart a feeling that poor folks are somehow hopeless and cursed, which isn't really helpful either. Wouldn't it be a lot more helpful to teach teenagers and pre-teens real-life strategies for independent living? Things like showing you how much money you end up paying to rent furniture or lease a car? Maybe something like the old board game Pay Day? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_Day_(board_game) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_Day_(board_game)
- hugh3 15y ago
  Or the old Sierra game "Jones In The Fast Lane". Something like that (more sophisticated, with more detail, and more opportunities to make dumb and smart decisions) should be compulsory playing for young kids. Much like astronauts training for their missions, I reckon that by the time kids get old enough to make their own life decisions, they should have done it in the simulator hundreds of times. I'm being somewhat facetious, of course, you can't make a simulator anywhere near as detailed as real life. Still, I think life-simulation games have a part to play in teaching children good values like delaying gratification and so forth.
  - zach 15y ago
    I am a huge fan of this line of thinking. I love your astronaut example which I hadn't heard before. Nor had I heard of Jones in the Fast Lane which is exactly the kind of game rarely seen today. I'm a career game programmer and web developer. In the last five years, I was on two game shows in the last five years and before each one, knowing I only had one shot, I made software to help me simulate the experience and work out the strategies I would use. I did well in both cases and am convinced that simulating things really helped. So I'm really sold on simulation being a great way to impart practical knowledge. There's a lot of stuff out there that could really use that treatment and I agree with your enthusiasm for it. Let's get in touch and see if there's some way to push this forward.
    - hugh3 15y ago
      Email in profile. I can't promise to be able to provide anything other than moral support, though.
michaelchisari 15y ago
Me: I have a mobile phone?? For many people, mobile phones have replaced land lines, and are often cheaper with pay-as-you-go plans. This isn't 1998 anymore, mobile phones are not a luxury. Also, if you can't get a call form work that your shift has been changed, and you miss a shift, you lose your job. And with most people having mobile phones, having a land line and not getting a chance to check your answering machine is not likely much of an excuse. Game: Landlord wants pet rent for the dog. Dogs have been a part of humanity for much of our modern evolution. If someone gets laid off, or hits hard times, asking them to give up their dog to save some money is like asking them to hand over a family member. So yes, while dogs are an expense, they have a lot of psychological and emotional benefits for evolutionary reasons. Me: I have a CAR??? Yes, because you couldn't find work nearby, and the only place that was hiring wasn't bike-able. So you bought a beater that's barely street legal, but you had to finance it through some shady car dealership. Unemployment had run out, and you had a job offer, and you knew it was risky, but what other option did you have?
- Dove 15y ago
  It's a question of magnitude. A phone is a necessity. A TracFone, where you can make a $10 phone and $20 of minutes last three months if you're careful, is reasonable if you think a mobile phone is a necessity. This person apparently had a $65/mo smartphone on a $1200/mo income. That's crazy talk. Ditto the car. If I had a beater I bought from my sister for a song, I'd have believed it. But it hit me up for a $325 car payment. That implies that I bought something decent new. That's a total WTF. A car might be a necessity, but a job that requires you to have that car might as well be on the moon. You need a job you can walk, bike, or bus to. Sell the toxic car yesterday. As for the dog . . . yeah, I know some people are attached to their dogs. And if you own your own place, and the only cost is its food and occasional vet bills, I don't see anything wrong with it. But when you're skipping food and medical care and best friend's weddings trying to make ends meet, and the dog is costing $100/mo in pet rent . . . it needed to be gone a long time ago. I think that kind of captures my overall response to the game, really. It's clearly written from the perspective of someone who doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do what they have to in order to make ends meet. You need to prioritize and cut. It can be done. Not to brag, but I have in fact done it before. But it does require treating the situation as the emergency it is, and taking appropriately drastic measures to establish positive cash flow.
InclinedPlane 15y ago
Back when my earnings were in a similar ballpark to this game I lived in a very inexpensive apartment, I had no pets, I had a pre-paid mobile phone that cost maybe $8 a month on average, I had dialup internet, I did not have cable or a TV set, I did not own a car, and I owned very little furniture (bordering on none). That's how you keep costs down, you live within your means until your means improve.
misterbwong 15y ago
Mine started with Game: Your child wants to join the sports team Me: I have a kid????? Why would I have a child if I can't afford to live on my own?
- antihero 15y ago
  Perhaps you are a woman who got knocked up and had parents that wouldn't approve of an abortion? There are so many reasons.
suivix 15y ago
The moment I saw the rent was $850 per month I laughed out loud, because my brother makes minimum and lives in a $400 per month setup with apartment mates (who he found on Craigslist). And this is in Massachusetts in a city. I had to stop playing the game shortly after that since it too strongly ruined the suspension of disbelief.

by Dove 15y ago

zach 15y ago

A "let's gain empathy by playing being poor" game seems like a horrible idea overall. If it was a decent game and let you learn and succeed by smart choices, it would only give you a feeling of superiority to poor folks. If (as it does) it inflicts you with pre-existing poor decisions and random "the gods are angry" punishments, it seems to impart a feeling that poor folks are somehow hopeless and cursed, which isn't really helpful either. Wouldn't it be a lot more helpful to teach teenagers and pre-teens real-life strategies for independent living? Things like showing you how much money you end up paying to rent furniture or lease a car? Maybe something like the old board game Pay Day? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_Day_(board_game) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_Day_(board_game)

hugh3 15y ago
Or the old Sierra game "Jones In The Fast Lane". Something like that (more sophisticated, with more detail, and more opportunities to make dumb and smart decisions) should be compulsory playing for young kids. Much like astronauts training for their missions, I reckon that by the time kids get old enough to make their own life decisions, they should have done it in the simulator hundreds of times. I'm being somewhat facetious, of course, you can't make a simulator anywhere near as detailed as real life. Still, I think life-simulation games have a part to play in teaching children good values like delaying gratification and so forth.
- zach 15y ago
  I am a huge fan of this line of thinking. I love your astronaut example which I hadn't heard before. Nor had I heard of Jones in the Fast Lane which is exactly the kind of game rarely seen today. I'm a career game programmer and web developer. In the last five years, I was on two game shows in the last five years and before each one, knowing I only had one shot, I made software to help me simulate the experience and work out the strategies I would use. I did well in both cases and am convinced that simulating things really helped. So I'm really sold on simulation being a great way to impart practical knowledge. There's a lot of stuff out there that could really use that treatment and I agree with your enthusiasm for it. Let's get in touch and see if there's some way to push this forward.
  - hugh3 15y ago
    Email in profile. I can't promise to be able to provide anything other than moral support, though.

michaelchisari 15y ago

Me: I have a mobile phone?? For many people, mobile phones have replaced land lines, and are often cheaper with pay-as-you-go plans. This isn't 1998 anymore, mobile phones are not a luxury. Also, if you can't get a call form work that your shift has been changed, and you miss a shift, you lose your job. And with most people having mobile phones, having a land line and not getting a chance to check your answering machine is not likely much of an excuse. Game: Landlord wants pet rent for the dog. Dogs have been a part of humanity for much of our modern evolution. If someone gets laid off, or hits hard times, asking them to give up their dog to save some money is like asking them to hand over a family member. So yes, while dogs are an expense, they have a lot of psychological and emotional benefits for evolutionary reasons. Me: I have a CAR??? Yes, because you couldn't find work nearby, and the only place that was hiring wasn't bike-able. So you bought a beater that's barely street legal, but you had to finance it through some shady car dealership. Unemployment had run out, and you had a job offer, and you knew it was risky, but what other option did you have?

Dove 15y ago
It's a question of magnitude. A phone is a necessity. A TracFone, where you can make a $10 phone and $20 of minutes last three months if you're careful, is reasonable if you think a mobile phone is a necessity. This person apparently had a $65/mo smartphone on a $1200/mo income. That's crazy talk. Ditto the car. If I had a beater I bought from my sister for a song, I'd have believed it. But it hit me up for a $325 car payment. That implies that I bought something decent new. That's a total WTF. A car might be a necessity, but a job that requires you to have that car might as well be on the moon. You need a job you can walk, bike, or bus to. Sell the toxic car yesterday. As for the dog . . . yeah, I know some people are attached to their dogs. And if you own your own place, and the only cost is its food and occasional vet bills, I don't see anything wrong with it. But when you're skipping food and medical care and best friend's weddings trying to make ends meet, and the dog is costing $100/mo in pet rent . . . it needed to be gone a long time ago. I think that kind of captures my overall response to the game, really. It's clearly written from the perspective of someone who doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do what they have to in order to make ends meet. You need to prioritize and cut. It can be done. Not to brag, but I have in fact done it before. But it does require treating the situation as the emergency it is, and taking appropriately drastic measures to establish positive cash flow.

InclinedPlane 15y ago

Back when my earnings were in a similar ballpark to this game I lived in a very inexpensive apartment, I had no pets, I had a pre-paid mobile phone that cost maybe $8 a month on average, I had dialup internet, I did not have cable or a TV set, I did not own a car, and I owned very little furniture (bordering on none). That's how you keep costs down, you live within your means until your means improve.

misterbwong 15y ago

Mine started with Game: Your child wants to join the sports team Me: I have a kid????? Why would I have a child if I can't afford to live on my own?

antihero 15y ago
Perhaps you are a woman who got knocked up and had parents that wouldn't approve of an abortion? There are so many reasons.

suivix 15y ago

The moment I saw the rent was $850 per month I laughed out loud, because my brother makes minimum and lives in a $400 per month setup with apartment mates (who he found on Craigslist). And this is in Massachusetts in a city. I had to stop playing the game shortly after that since it too strongly ruined the suspension of disbelief.