5 ms·

It's weird that CT scans cost hundreds (thousands?) of dollars when used in medicine but at the airport everyone's baggage is routinely scanned for approx. $fre

It's weird that CT scans cost hundreds (thousands?) of dollars when used in medicine but at the airport everyone's baggage is routinely scanned for approx. $free. Is the hardware and software needed for CT scans really that expensive or not?

Traubenfuchs 5y ago
A private full body cancer search MRT (the most expensive diagnostic I could find) costs 1340€ in Germany, many common use cases much less (340 for a joint). Naturally it‘s free if a doctor decides you need one.
_moof 5y ago
Airport baggage scanners are nowhere near the complexity of CT machines. Not even the same kind of device. They also don't have to be designed and certified for human subjects.
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  > The CT scanner can create 3-D images of the contents of a bag, allowing TSA officers to rotate the images to better analyze the contents. In the future, the CT scanner may allow passengers to leave laptops and liquids inside of their carry-on bags, TSA officials say. https://www.courant.com/la-fi-ct-scanners-20180730-story.html https://www.courant.com/la-fi-ct-scanners-20180730-story.htm...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
miketery 5y ago
I think it's several reasons. One more complicated machine. Two higher paid professionals. And finally healthcare is a racket in the US (cost to value wise).
ramraj07 5y ago
People are saying it’s not the same but counterpoint: An MRI scan in a state of the art facility in Chennai India in at least 50 different facilities costs 2000-4000 Rupees or $26. The machines cost the same if not more here due to import duties. Labor is cheap but these labs truly compete with each other and that’s what drives the price down. So please acknowledge that the healthcare system in the US and other places is broken.
- markdown 5y ago
  > US and other places Is there really another "first-world" country on earth with healthcare broken like it is in the US?
  - mike256 5y ago
    Here in Switzerland healthcare is pretty much broken when it comes to prices. Everything is pretty expensive. But is it broken like in the US? No way! Our healthcare works very well and its prices are okay ;-)
    - ornornor 5y ago
      I think it could be much cheaper in CH if we had public insurers instead of private for profit ones.
- Semaphor 5y ago
  A pure CT Scan in Germany (paid for by public health insurance unless you do one for fun), without anything else (consultation, contrast materials, etc.) is billed 110-170 € (USD 120-190). Considering labor is more expensive here, that sounds comparable.
  - ornornor 5y ago
    For contrast (pun!), Switzerland just across the border charges 6–7 times as much for the same thing. And medication too, it costs multiples more for the same medicine in CH than anywhere else in Europe just because.
metal_am 5y ago
Airport scanners are not CT. They will only give you one projection. I would also be willing to bet these CT machines can only scan a very small volume. Typically, they will rotate the sample, not the X-ray source and detector. I’d imagine some of the cost comes from being able to move the source and detector while keeping everything in alignment. (Disclaimer: My experience is secondhand with scanning metals)
- twbarr 5y ago
  The passenger checkpoint devices are projection imaging, but they do use CT (with rotating source/detector, just like a medical CT) for checked bags. https://www.envimet.com/en/product/examiner-xlb/ https://www.envimet.com/en/product/examiner-xlb/
- joshvm 5y ago
  Newer ones are actually moving to CT. If you go through one of those security checkpoints, you don't need to take anything out of your bag. They were being used at some terminals at Heathrow - but confusingly not all. I think T2 has them, or at least were trialing them when I flew in September 2020. T5 definitely didn't in January.
- habi 5y ago
  Nitpicking detail; the standard belt-scanners don't give you 'one' projection, but have (most probably) a linear detector with a (nearly linear) x-ray source pointed at, so they give you a slit-scan image, which is not one projection, but a veeeeery long image :)
ars 5y ago
The air port has an x-ray machine, not a CT scanner. The CT has a ring the spins around the object making a 3d image - they don't have that at the airport. X-rays are quite cheap in the medical world (reading them is where the cost is, not taking the x-ray).
- hallway_monitor 5y ago
  I suppose a CT is what I saw at the airport earlier this year then - maybe Houston? The technicians clearly had a 3d model and were manipulating it to view it from all angles.
  - habi 5y ago
    There are CT machines at airports: https://petapixel.com/2019/10/21/beware-new-3d-airport-scanners-will-destroy-your-camera-film/ https://petapixel.com/2019/10/21/beware-new-3d-airport-scann... Technically, one can also get a (simple) 3D model of something with 'linear tomography', e.g. when the 'sample' is moved under the x-ray source, which happens in classic baggage scanners.
gorgoiler 5y ago
Of the two applications you describe, one is a super serious life or death situation where a single mistake could harm human life. The other is an institutional monopoly that, while initially set up with lofty goals to save lives, has devolved into a suppressive tool that works against the common man.
mellavora 5y ago
No, it is the wetware.
bluedino 5y ago
I had a scan done a few months ago and marveled a bit at the machine. It was 20 years old but the room it was in was probably very expensive to build. There was a considerable amount of electrical power going to the room. And you can't just let a newbie run the machine. The liability alone of having a patient with a metal sliver in their eye or piercing still installed must be insane.

Traubenfuchs 5y ago

A private full body cancer search MRT (the most expensive diagnostic I could find) costs 1340€ in Germany, many common use cases much less (340 for a joint). Naturally it‘s free if a doctor decides you need one.

_moof 5y ago

Airport baggage scanners are nowhere near the complexity of CT machines. Not even the same kind of device. They also don't have to be designed and certified for human subjects.

wlesieutre 5y ago
> The CT scanner can create 3-D images of the contents of a bag, allowing TSA officers to rotate the images to better analyze the contents. In the future, the CT scanner may allow passengers to leave laptops and liquids inside of their carry-on bags, TSA officials say. https://www.courant.com/la-fi-ct-scanners-20180730-story.html https://www.courant.com/la-fi-ct-scanners-20180730-story.htm...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

miketery 5y ago

I think it's several reasons. One more complicated machine. Two higher paid professionals. And finally healthcare is a racket in the US (cost to value wise).

ramraj07 5y ago

People are saying it’s not the same but counterpoint: An MRI scan in a state of the art facility in Chennai India in at least 50 different facilities costs 2000-4000 Rupees or $26. The machines cost the same if not more here due to import duties. Labor is cheap but these labs truly compete with each other and that’s what drives the price down. So please acknowledge that the healthcare system in the US and other places is broken.

markdown 5y ago
> US and other places Is there really another "first-world" country on earth with healthcare broken like it is in the US?
- mike256 5y ago
  Here in Switzerland healthcare is pretty much broken when it comes to prices. Everything is pretty expensive. But is it broken like in the US? No way! Our healthcare works very well and its prices are okay ;-)
  - ornornor 5y ago
    I think it could be much cheaper in CH if we had public insurers instead of private for profit ones.
Semaphor 5y ago
A pure CT Scan in Germany (paid for by public health insurance unless you do one for fun), without anything else (consultation, contrast materials, etc.) is billed 110-170 € (USD 120-190). Considering labor is more expensive here, that sounds comparable.
- ornornor 5y ago
  For contrast (pun!), Switzerland just across the border charges 6–7 times as much for the same thing. And medication too, it costs multiples more for the same medicine in CH than anywhere else in Europe just because.

metal_am 5y ago

Airport scanners are not CT. They will only give you one projection. I would also be willing to bet these CT machines can only scan a very small volume. Typically, they will rotate the sample, not the X-ray source and detector. I’d imagine some of the cost comes from being able to move the source and detector while keeping everything in alignment. (Disclaimer: My experience is secondhand with scanning metals)

twbarr 5y ago
The passenger checkpoint devices are projection imaging, but they do use CT (with rotating source/detector, just like a medical CT) for checked bags. https://www.envimet.com/en/product/examiner-xlb/ https://www.envimet.com/en/product/examiner-xlb/
joshvm 5y ago
Newer ones are actually moving to CT. If you go through one of those security checkpoints, you don't need to take anything out of your bag. They were being used at some terminals at Heathrow - but confusingly not all. I think T2 has them, or at least were trialing them when I flew in September 2020. T5 definitely didn't in January.
habi 5y ago
Nitpicking detail; the standard belt-scanners don't give you 'one' projection, but have (most probably) a linear detector with a (nearly linear) x-ray source pointed at, so they give you a slit-scan image, which is not one projection, but a veeeeery long image :)

ars 5y ago

The air port has an x-ray machine, not a CT scanner. The CT has a ring the spins around the object making a 3d image - they don't have that at the airport. X-rays are quite cheap in the medical world (reading them is where the cost is, not taking the x-ray).

hallway_monitor 5y ago
I suppose a CT is what I saw at the airport earlier this year then - maybe Houston? The technicians clearly had a 3d model and were manipulating it to view it from all angles.
- habi 5y ago
  There are CT machines at airports: https://petapixel.com/2019/10/21/beware-new-3d-airport-scanners-will-destroy-your-camera-film/ https://petapixel.com/2019/10/21/beware-new-3d-airport-scann... Technically, one can also get a (simple) 3D model of something with 'linear tomography', e.g. when the 'sample' is moved under the x-ray source, which happens in classic baggage scanners.

gorgoiler 5y ago

Of the two applications you describe, one is a super serious life or death situation where a single mistake could harm human life. The other is an institutional monopoly that, while initially set up with lofty goals to save lives, has devolved into a suppressive tool that works against the common man.

mellavora 5y ago

No, it is the wetware.

bluedino 5y ago

I had a scan done a few months ago and marveled a bit at the machine. It was 20 years old but the room it was in was probably very expensive to build. There was a considerable amount of electrical power going to the room. And you can't just let a newbie run the machine. The liability alone of having a patient with a metal sliver in their eye or piercing still installed must be insane.