6 ms·

This is brutal. I can only imagine the indignation felt if US computers were wiped because of the 2003 invasion.

by x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago

anonymouswacker 5y ago
- smt88 5y ago
  Do you feel that there are no significant differences between the invasion of Iraq and the wars in Ukraine that started in 2014?
  - opisthenar84 5y ago
    The invasion of Iraq took place over weapons that did not exist. The invasion of Ukraine is happening because of non-existent neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian government. Not identical, but there are parallels.
    - smt88 5y ago
      I didn't deny that there are parallels. I asked if they are the same, and you seem to agree that they aren't.
      - pokepim 5y ago
        Is it fair to compare which war was worse? The suffering is same anywhere, or do you mean that brown peoples lives are less important? If that is the case then this is really fucked up.
        smt88 5y ago
        I am brown, so you can take your insinuation that I'm a white supremacist elsewhere. Try to address what I actually said instead of putting words in my mouth. I'm not arguing about it on a humanitarian basis. The invasion of Iraq and subsequent forever-war is a huge humanitarian disaster that Putin may or may not beat. I'm arguing about whether Putin invading a peaceful, democratic country in order to expand his borders is more or less justified than the US invading a hostile, murderous dictatorship. Both are bad, but one is clearly worse.
        sschueller 5y ago
        I'm sorry but Ukraine was not peaceful before the invasion. There was extensive fighting in the east over years. External entities where funding various factions and the previous government was a puppet. You paint Ukraine as some peaceful and stable European place when it just factually wasn't. If Russia invaded Finland I would agree with you but nut Ukraine.
        smt88 5y ago
        The puppet government and fighting in the east were also because of Russia. You're just arguing that this war started in 2014 or earlier, and I agree with you.
      - usednet 5y ago
        Well one was in Iraq and the other is in Ukraine.
  - hidudeurcool 5y ago
    The Iraq invasion and Afghanistan were far worse and unjustified. NATO has killed more than Putin ever will. Russia is attacking Ukraine with geostrategic cause. Whether or not you agree. Ukraine was falling into NATO hands.
    - smt88 5y ago
      I disagree that "geostrategic cause" is a thing that exists or justifies a war. If it is only geostrategic, it is not cause.
  - User23 5y ago
    Do you believe that there are moral principles that apply universally? If so, I’m interested in hearing a consistent set that makes Russia invading a country wrong but it’s ok when the USA does it. Sadly I think most people’s moral reasoning here is TV man says Russia is the bad guys and USA is the good guys. Bad guys always bad good guys always good.
    - sterlind 5y ago
      I mostly don't believe in universal morality, I just try to find my own moral meaning. I think Iraq and Ukraine are both examples of a (military) superpower curbstomping a smaller nation under a flimsy, false, pretext. I think Ukraine is also different because it's a democracy, and they're outright bombing hospitals and leveling cities, and Putin is threatening to nuke the world if he doesn't get his way. So they're both bad, but I see Ukraine as genuinely worse.
      - pokepim 5y ago
        Well there were many reports of hospitals being bombed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not to mention Vietnam where there was 3x as many bombs dropped as in whole WW2 on all sides, nuts!
      - User23 5y ago
        > I mostly don't believe in universal morality, I just try to find my own moral meaning. I'm trying to steel-man here, but this reads to me as "I am mostly morally unprincipled" in the sense that you do not require consistency in your own moral meaning, whatever that is. Most people probably aren't satisfied with a moral system that's "whatever sterlind feels like today." Here's a thought experiment: imagine if the powers that be in the West were fully aligned with Russia for whatever reason. As a result they deploy the full force of traditional and social media message control along with all the other measures taken to sway public opinion in favor of Ukraine. In that scenario, do you believe the vast majority of people in the West would be just as enthusiastic about the "special military operation" as they are about Ukrainian resistance today? Do you think your opinion would be different? Why or why not?
  - anonymouswacker 5y ago
    Yes, it appears the Russians are not bombing civilians indiscriminately like the US did early in the war. Of course warfare tech has improved since then, but also Russia has an interest in preserving Ukraine, and simply getting rid of its racist, puppet government.
    - gnulinux 5y ago
      Russia has been indiscriminately bombing civilians and civilian and humanitarian infrastructure since day 1 of invasion. There are mountains, and mountains of evidence. Amnesty International (Feb 25, first days if the war): https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/russian-military-commits-indiscriminate-attacks-during-the-invasion-of-ukraine/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/russian-milit... "UN rights office says it has credible reports of Russian cluster bomb use in Ukraine", (March 11): https://www.reuters.com/world/un-rights-office-has-credible-reports-russian-cluster-bomb-use-ukraine-2022-03-11/ https://www.reuters.com/world/un-rights-office-has-credible-...
      - smt88 5y ago
        Someone who believes the Kremlin propaganda that Zelensky is a neo-Nazi is not going to be swayed by Reuters. I wouldn't waste my time if I were you.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        anonymouswacker 5y ago
        I'm guessing your American "news" outlets, CNN and MSNBC, are telling you it's important to wave the American flag and bless this war in Ukraine. Zelenskyy isn't a neo-Nazi, but nice diversion. A lot of Ukrainians, and Eastern Europeans in general, are nationalists and even neo-nazis, and for good reason: as a response to the horrors of communism via the soviet union and the American hegemony's exploitation, they can't find much else to agree on. Just like how Donald Trump's MAGA movement gained so much power in response to Democrats & Republicans rape of the middle class and warmongering. Look up these terms: Manufacturing Consent and the Propaganda Model[0], and Useful Idiot [1]. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
smt88 5y ago
US computers are attacked by foreign nations all the time.

This is brutal. I can only imagine the indignation felt if US computers were wiped because of the 2003 invasion.

anonymouswacker 5y ago

smt88 5y ago
Do you feel that there are no significant differences between the invasion of Iraq and the wars in Ukraine that started in 2014?
- opisthenar84 5y ago
  The invasion of Iraq took place over weapons that did not exist. The invasion of Ukraine is happening because of non-existent neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian government. Not identical, but there are parallels.
  - smt88 5y ago
    I didn't deny that there are parallels. I asked if they are the same, and you seem to agree that they aren't.
    - pokepim 5y ago
      Is it fair to compare which war was worse? The suffering is same anywhere, or do you mean that brown peoples lives are less important? If that is the case then this is really fucked up.
      - smt88 5y ago
        I am brown, so you can take your insinuation that I'm a white supremacist elsewhere. Try to address what I actually said instead of putting words in my mouth. I'm not arguing about it on a humanitarian basis. The invasion of Iraq and subsequent forever-war is a huge humanitarian disaster that Putin may or may not beat. I'm arguing about whether Putin invading a peaceful, democratic country in order to expand his borders is more or less justified than the US invading a hostile, murderous dictatorship. Both are bad, but one is clearly worse.
        sschueller 5y ago
        I'm sorry but Ukraine was not peaceful before the invasion. There was extensive fighting in the east over years. External entities where funding various factions and the previous government was a puppet. You paint Ukraine as some peaceful and stable European place when it just factually wasn't. If Russia invaded Finland I would agree with you but nut Ukraine.
        smt88 5y ago
        The puppet government and fighting in the east were also because of Russia. You're just arguing that this war started in 2014 or earlier, and I agree with you.
    - usednet 5y ago
      Well one was in Iraq and the other is in Ukraine.
- hidudeurcool 5y ago
  The Iraq invasion and Afghanistan were far worse and unjustified. NATO has killed more than Putin ever will. Russia is attacking Ukraine with geostrategic cause. Whether or not you agree. Ukraine was falling into NATO hands.
  - smt88 5y ago
    I disagree that "geostrategic cause" is a thing that exists or justifies a war. If it is only geostrategic, it is not cause.
- User23 5y ago
  Do you believe that there are moral principles that apply universally? If so, I’m interested in hearing a consistent set that makes Russia invading a country wrong but it’s ok when the USA does it. Sadly I think most people’s moral reasoning here is TV man says Russia is the bad guys and USA is the good guys. Bad guys always bad good guys always good.
  - sterlind 5y ago
    I mostly don't believe in universal morality, I just try to find my own moral meaning. I think Iraq and Ukraine are both examples of a (military) superpower curbstomping a smaller nation under a flimsy, false, pretext. I think Ukraine is also different because it's a democracy, and they're outright bombing hospitals and leveling cities, and Putin is threatening to nuke the world if he doesn't get his way. So they're both bad, but I see Ukraine as genuinely worse.
    - pokepim 5y ago
      Well there were many reports of hospitals being bombed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not to mention Vietnam where there was 3x as many bombs dropped as in whole WW2 on all sides, nuts!
    - User23 5y ago
      > I mostly don't believe in universal morality, I just try to find my own moral meaning. I'm trying to steel-man here, but this reads to me as "I am mostly morally unprincipled" in the sense that you do not require consistency in your own moral meaning, whatever that is. Most people probably aren't satisfied with a moral system that's "whatever sterlind feels like today." Here's a thought experiment: imagine if the powers that be in the West were fully aligned with Russia for whatever reason. As a result they deploy the full force of traditional and social media message control along with all the other measures taken to sway public opinion in favor of Ukraine. In that scenario, do you believe the vast majority of people in the West would be just as enthusiastic about the "special military operation" as they are about Ukrainian resistance today? Do you think your opinion would be different? Why or why not?
- anonymouswacker 5y ago
  Yes, it appears the Russians are not bombing civilians indiscriminately like the US did early in the war. Of course warfare tech has improved since then, but also Russia has an interest in preserving Ukraine, and simply getting rid of its racist, puppet government.
  - gnulinux 5y ago
    Russia has been indiscriminately bombing civilians and civilian and humanitarian infrastructure since day 1 of invasion. There are mountains, and mountains of evidence. Amnesty International (Feb 25, first days if the war): https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/russian-military-commits-indiscriminate-attacks-during-the-invasion-of-ukraine/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/russian-milit... "UN rights office says it has credible reports of Russian cluster bomb use in Ukraine", (March 11): https://www.reuters.com/world/un-rights-office-has-credible-reports-russian-cluster-bomb-use-ukraine-2022-03-11/ https://www.reuters.com/world/un-rights-office-has-credible-...
    - smt88 5y ago
      Someone who believes the Kremlin propaganda that Zelensky is a neo-Nazi is not going to be swayed by Reuters. I wouldn't waste my time if I were you.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - anonymouswacker 5y ago
        I'm guessing your American "news" outlets, CNN and MSNBC, are telling you it's important to wave the American flag and bless this war in Ukraine. Zelenskyy isn't a neo-Nazi, but nice diversion. A lot of Ukrainians, and Eastern Europeans in general, are nationalists and even neo-nazis, and for good reason: as a response to the horrors of communism via the soviet union and the American hegemony's exploitation, they can't find much else to agree on. Just like how Donald Trump's MAGA movement gained so much power in response to Democrats & Republicans rape of the middle class and warmongering. Look up these terms: Manufacturing Consent and the Propaganda Model[0], and Useful Idiot [1]. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

smt88 5y ago

US computers are attacked by foreign nations all the time.