4 ms·

>> 41% did so because their employer didn’t enforce enough health and safety protocols > That is scary. We are seeing the rise of authoritarianism. What, exac

>> 41% did so because their employer didn’t enforce enough health and safety protocols > That is scary. We are seeing the rise of authoritarianism. What, exactly, do you mean? That it's authoritarian to not want to work in a place where your coworkers are allowed to put you in danger?

replygirl 5y ago
- sbarre 5y ago
  Wait what? Sooo.. you want to work in an environment where there are no rules, and people should just suffer discomfort while trying to do their jobs? Am I misunderstanding you here?
  - replygirl 5y ago
    yes, you are. i'm saying younger people's idea of justice is more retribution than remediation (and not by any fault of our own)
    - sixstringtheory 5y ago
      How do you know those 41% didn’t attempt remediation first? Awfully big assumption. At the end of the day this is the free market and free association at work.
      - replygirl 5y ago
        i'm not complaining that i don't have to work with people like this
        sixstringtheory 5y ago
        You’re evading every rebuttal to your points in attempts to take more potshots. Get out of here with that nonsense.
        replygirl 5y ago
        you took my comment on justice literally, as if quitting one's job was the hypothetical retributive act i was talking about. i figured it would be rude to try to correct your own words, so instead of responding to the letter of your comment i responded to its spirit with a quip about free association :)
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > yes, you are. i'm saying younger people's idea of justice is more retribution than remediation (and not by any fault of our own) What now? It sounds like you're conflating two entirely separate things: health and safety protocols (i.e. trying to prevent the spread of a serious disease at work) with "social justice" ideology. Or maybe you're just sloppily gesticulating at a grab bag of stuff connected only by your subjective dislike.
      - replygirl 5y ago
        https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/briefing/covid-risks-poll-americans.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/briefing/covid-risks-poll...
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Not wanting to work at a place where you don't feel safe is fascism.
  - replygirl 5y ago
    - tomrod 5y ago
      You could. In my experience, you'd also be quite mistaken, but you certainly could make the assertion. Heck, you might even try the gish gallop and pull a ton of rightwing propaganda links -- certainly nothing if not time-tested! Or, we could recognize that people vote with their feet and if the business environment doesn't conform to what they want they leave, and if it does they stay. But calling non-pharmaceutical measures fascism? That some of the initial COVID-19 guidance had mistakes as policy makers and public health authorities looked to nail down a workable model? IMHO that's pretty dumb. Better return to be had hunting down policy cheaters, businesses that took PPP loans w/o actually qualifying.
      - replygirl 5y ago
        what? do you really not remember "flatten the curve"? https://www.nytimes.com/article/flatten-curve-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/article/flatten-curve-coronavirus.ht...
        tomrod 5y ago
        I was speaking more about not immediately mandating masks, given they were concerned about protective gear shortages and people were supposed to be staying home. Flatten the curve worked well in places that people actually adhered to public health protocols. New Zealand, several places in Europe and Asia, several US states that adopted sufficient NPI. But flattening the curve didn't work in many places in the US due to the behavioral response of people, where many people felt entitled to break protocols (they aren't) or were forced to due to economic necessity, or whose leaders lacked the will to actually implement the necessary protocols.[0] There is a correlation to political party support, since Trump was a mixed bag of recommendations due to his apprehension of appearing unpopular as a populist. Not that I am a supporter, but IMHO it was Trump's greatest loss -- it would have been an easy win had he actually been effectual with COVID-19 protocols instead of trying to just look more effective. Though, to be fair, the US doesn't have the right centralization for public health authority given our open trade and travel between states. Perhaps that changes in the next pandemic or two. [0] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.754696/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.7546...
- belltaco 5y ago
  A lot of folks have older or at risk people living with them. How is it in any way fascism to leave a job where coworkers or customers are not required to wear masks?
  - replygirl 5y ago
    on the first sentence: as a trans woman i often find my own identity deployed in this way--"but think of the [slightly marginalized token minority]!"--and i have no patience for that sort of thing. there are obviously exceptions to what people believe, but when speaking about our beliefs in brief, we all fall back onto generalizations. on your question: perhaps you misread, i didn't say it's fascistic to quit your job, i said "we live under a neoliberal order of punishment that's turning us into little fascists who need a bunch of rules to mediate all difference, discomfort, and suffering out of life", which is a pretty common view in the labor studies field as well as in antiauthoritarian labor communities. so i don't know what you're on about.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - freedomben 5y ago
    I don't think GP meant it was fascism to quit. I think they were saying that nowadays people want the authority figures to make rules to keep others from doing things that they don't like. Kind of like home owners associations that make rules about the acceptable length of your blades of grass. But it's also possible GP was being sarcastic and mocking that view, so take with a grain of salt!
    - replygirl 5y ago
      i'm being sincere, thanks for jumping in to clarify :) another way to look at it is i believe people are overly concerned with negative rights vs. positive rights
  - userbinator 5y ago
    I don't think anyone was being prohibited from wearing a mask.

replygirl 5y ago

sbarre 5y ago
Wait what? Sooo.. you want to work in an environment where there are no rules, and people should just suffer discomfort while trying to do their jobs? Am I misunderstanding you here?
- replygirl 5y ago
  yes, you are. i'm saying younger people's idea of justice is more retribution than remediation (and not by any fault of our own)
  - sixstringtheory 5y ago
    How do you know those 41% didn’t attempt remediation first? Awfully big assumption. At the end of the day this is the free market and free association at work.
    - replygirl 5y ago
      i'm not complaining that i don't have to work with people like this
      - sixstringtheory 5y ago
        You’re evading every rebuttal to your points in attempts to take more potshots. Get out of here with that nonsense.
        replygirl 5y ago
        you took my comment on justice literally, as if quitting one's job was the hypothetical retributive act i was talking about. i figured it would be rude to try to correct your own words, so instead of responding to the letter of your comment i responded to its spirit with a quip about free association :)
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > yes, you are. i'm saying younger people's idea of justice is more retribution than remediation (and not by any fault of our own) What now? It sounds like you're conflating two entirely separate things: health and safety protocols (i.e. trying to prevent the spread of a serious disease at work) with "social justice" ideology. Or maybe you're just sloppily gesticulating at a grab bag of stuff connected only by your subjective dislike.
    - replygirl 5y ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/briefing/covid-risks-poll-americans.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/briefing/covid-risks-poll...
pessimizer 5y ago
Not wanting to work at a place where you don't feel safe is fascism.
- replygirl 5y ago
  - tomrod 5y ago
    You could. In my experience, you'd also be quite mistaken, but you certainly could make the assertion. Heck, you might even try the gish gallop and pull a ton of rightwing propaganda links -- certainly nothing if not time-tested! Or, we could recognize that people vote with their feet and if the business environment doesn't conform to what they want they leave, and if it does they stay. But calling non-pharmaceutical measures fascism? That some of the initial COVID-19 guidance had mistakes as policy makers and public health authorities looked to nail down a workable model? IMHO that's pretty dumb. Better return to be had hunting down policy cheaters, businesses that took PPP loans w/o actually qualifying.
    - replygirl 5y ago
      what? do you really not remember "flatten the curve"? https://www.nytimes.com/article/flatten-curve-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/article/flatten-curve-coronavirus.ht...
      - tomrod 5y ago
        I was speaking more about not immediately mandating masks, given they were concerned about protective gear shortages and people were supposed to be staying home. Flatten the curve worked well in places that people actually adhered to public health protocols. New Zealand, several places in Europe and Asia, several US states that adopted sufficient NPI. But flattening the curve didn't work in many places in the US due to the behavioral response of people, where many people felt entitled to break protocols (they aren't) or were forced to due to economic necessity, or whose leaders lacked the will to actually implement the necessary protocols.[0] There is a correlation to political party support, since Trump was a mixed bag of recommendations due to his apprehension of appearing unpopular as a populist. Not that I am a supporter, but IMHO it was Trump's greatest loss -- it would have been an easy win had he actually been effectual with COVID-19 protocols instead of trying to just look more effective. Though, to be fair, the US doesn't have the right centralization for public health authority given our open trade and travel between states. Perhaps that changes in the next pandemic or two. [0] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.754696/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.7546...
belltaco 5y ago
A lot of folks have older or at risk people living with them. How is it in any way fascism to leave a job where coworkers or customers are not required to wear masks?
- replygirl 5y ago
  on the first sentence: as a trans woman i often find my own identity deployed in this way--"but think of the [slightly marginalized token minority]!"--and i have no patience for that sort of thing. there are obviously exceptions to what people believe, but when speaking about our beliefs in brief, we all fall back onto generalizations. on your question: perhaps you misread, i didn't say it's fascistic to quit your job, i said "we live under a neoliberal order of punishment that's turning us into little fascists who need a bunch of rules to mediate all difference, discomfort, and suffering out of life", which is a pretty common view in the labor studies field as well as in antiauthoritarian labor communities. so i don't know what you're on about.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- freedomben 5y ago
  I don't think GP meant it was fascism to quit. I think they were saying that nowadays people want the authority figures to make rules to keep others from doing things that they don't like. Kind of like home owners associations that make rules about the acceptable length of your blades of grass. But it's also possible GP was being sarcastic and mocking that view, so take with a grain of salt!
  - replygirl 5y ago
    i'm being sincere, thanks for jumping in to clarify :) another way to look at it is i believe people are overly concerned with negative rights vs. positive rights
- userbinator 5y ago
  I don't think anyone was being prohibited from wearing a mask.