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To be honest, I'd much rather more effort is spent on education around safe driving. Certain reckless drivers are always going to be reckless. Australia has th

To be honest, I'd much rather more effort is spent on education around safe driving. Certain reckless drivers are always going to be reckless. Australia has the approach of heavy fines for the slightest infractions. As in 3km/h over the speed limit and you can be fined and receive demerit points that affect your insurance. It just feels oppressive. It's terrible.

bedobi 5y ago
Australian drivers are the some of the worst, angriest and most inconsiderate in the world in my experience. Don't believe me get on the M1 between Brisbane and the Gold Coast, you're guaranteed to see countless people tailgating with less than a meter distance to the car in front at 120+ kmh, snaking between lanes, abusing each other etc etc. Urban speed limits are too high and planners seem to have zero consideration for the safety of people on foot, bike and alternative transport. Hooning is rampant. I could go on. Speed cameras are woefully inadequate to fix any of it.
- porty 5y ago
  I'm going to need your home country for comparison - I find what you're saying here sounds a lot more like California (where I live now) than Australia.
  - bedobi 5y ago
    I learned how to drive in Stockholm, which isn't great either, but doesn't get close to Australia. By all means I think Vancouver and California drivers suck too :P I used to work in Vancouver CBD and witnessed several accidents people get hit by cars on the corner Robson Hornby. The city never did anything about it, it was just accepted as a fact of daily life. EDIT a quick Google reveals people, including infants, are still getting hit and killed on the corner Robson Hornby, and it doesn't look like there's been any traffic calming or bollards or fencing or anything added to keep pedestrians safe. (people aren't just getting hit when crossing the intersection, they're getting hit by cars coming up on the sidewalks etc, it's crazy)
- tiew9Vii 5y ago
  I agree on Australian drivers. I’m neutral on Australian urban speed limits, they are similar to parts of the UK. However the standard of driving in the urban speed limits in AU is far poorer, the lower limit the more aggressive the driving gets. Australian drivers are aggressive, tailgate, no lane discipline, if you are a pedestrian/cyclist you are in the way and Australian drivers make it known speeding up, getting close, not giving way. The speed limit doesn’t seem to be the issue, the attitude does. Non urban speed limits seem lower in AU, the flow of traffic generally on the highway seems lower in AU. The UK most people do 80mph on the motorway (limit is 70mph), AU limit is 110km/h (68mph) and most drivers do 100km/h with those speeding doing 120km/h (just under 75mph). Regardless of AU flow of traffic feeling slower on the highway, I’ll almost always see people lane hogging, tail gating, under taking, cutting people up and feel far more at risk than driving in the uk/eu where people are driving faster, but more considerately
  - bedobi 5y ago
    Glad it's not just me. Ranting a bit but I feel like in many European countries, if you behaved the way Australian drivers do, you would get ostracized and people would never want to get in a car with you. That kind of behavior is just totally socially unacceptable - there's a widespread understanding that you should stop to let pedestrians cross, you should give way and merge in a cooperative, charitable way etc etc. Whereas in Australia, aggressive driving isn't just taken for granted and perfectly socially acceptable, but in a huge share of the population, it's straight up encouraged as something good and cool. "Having to" stop to let pedestrians across, giving way, being overtaken etc is taken as some kind of personal slight that should be punished or made clear to the "offender" that it's unacceptable, by intimidation or abuse or both. It's a bizarre and childish mentality, like kids racing their bikes and have to arrive first or something.
porty 5y ago
I've been living in the US for 4 years now (from Australia) and I find driving in the US, with their inconsistent-to-nonexistent speeding fines have caused driving to be a real pain - everyone drives at different speeds, mostly 10+ mph over. Went to Australia last month - driving was so nice (yes, also to the Gold Coast). Everyone does the same speed (more or less); you can see cars in your mirrors and know they're going to be roughly in the same spot a second or two later when changing lanes :) :)
- climb_stealth 5y ago
  Thanks for your perspective! This makes me wonder whether wherever one has first learned to drive feels most right. That said I haven't been to the US so not sure what it is like.
- windows2020 5y ago
  Wonder if there is a correlation between speed limit deviation and trust of government.
oh_sigh 5y ago
It does appear oppressive to someone who is used to +10% wiggle room on the speed limits, but I think a key point of confusion here is that recommended speed and speed limit are two separate concepts, but are conflated into simply the speed limit, and the recommended speed is rarely advertised. And, that hard 3km/h over the speed limit standard also applies in places that have more lenient enforcement, but the driver never knows exactly where the limit is because it is based on the cop's discretion. For example, on most US highways, if the speed limit is 65, you can do 75 without getting a second look from a cop. But if they clock you at 76, you're getting pulled over.
- climb_stealth 5y ago
  Hmmm, interesting. Does getting pulled over at 76 in a 65 come with more than just a fine? Germany for example has the rule that anything under 18kmh over the speed limit is only a fine that doesn't get recorded otherwise. Only going over that results in demerit points and insurance or license implications. This makes it okay to speed as long as it is safe. Yes there is still the element of it being the cop's discretion but even when pulled over there are no lasting consequences. Australia is much harsher in that regard with any speeding offence coming with demerit points that remain tied to the license for 3+ years. It's ridiculous.

bedobi 5y ago

Australian drivers are the some of the worst, angriest and most inconsiderate in the world in my experience. Don't believe me get on the M1 between Brisbane and the Gold Coast, you're guaranteed to see countless people tailgating with less than a meter distance to the car in front at 120+ kmh, snaking between lanes, abusing each other etc etc. Urban speed limits are too high and planners seem to have zero consideration for the safety of people on foot, bike and alternative transport. Hooning is rampant. I could go on. Speed cameras are woefully inadequate to fix any of it.

porty 5y ago
I'm going to need your home country for comparison - I find what you're saying here sounds a lot more like California (where I live now) than Australia.
- bedobi 5y ago
  I learned how to drive in Stockholm, which isn't great either, but doesn't get close to Australia. By all means I think Vancouver and California drivers suck too :P I used to work in Vancouver CBD and witnessed several accidents people get hit by cars on the corner Robson Hornby. The city never did anything about it, it was just accepted as a fact of daily life. EDIT a quick Google reveals people, including infants, are still getting hit and killed on the corner Robson Hornby, and it doesn't look like there's been any traffic calming or bollards or fencing or anything added to keep pedestrians safe. (people aren't just getting hit when crossing the intersection, they're getting hit by cars coming up on the sidewalks etc, it's crazy)
tiew9Vii 5y ago
I agree on Australian drivers. I’m neutral on Australian urban speed limits, they are similar to parts of the UK. However the standard of driving in the urban speed limits in AU is far poorer, the lower limit the more aggressive the driving gets. Australian drivers are aggressive, tailgate, no lane discipline, if you are a pedestrian/cyclist you are in the way and Australian drivers make it known speeding up, getting close, not giving way. The speed limit doesn’t seem to be the issue, the attitude does. Non urban speed limits seem lower in AU, the flow of traffic generally on the highway seems lower in AU. The UK most people do 80mph on the motorway (limit is 70mph), AU limit is 110km/h (68mph) and most drivers do 100km/h with those speeding doing 120km/h (just under 75mph). Regardless of AU flow of traffic feeling slower on the highway, I’ll almost always see people lane hogging, tail gating, under taking, cutting people up and feel far more at risk than driving in the uk/eu where people are driving faster, but more considerately
- bedobi 5y ago
  Glad it's not just me. Ranting a bit but I feel like in many European countries, if you behaved the way Australian drivers do, you would get ostracized and people would never want to get in a car with you. That kind of behavior is just totally socially unacceptable - there's a widespread understanding that you should stop to let pedestrians cross, you should give way and merge in a cooperative, charitable way etc etc. Whereas in Australia, aggressive driving isn't just taken for granted and perfectly socially acceptable, but in a huge share of the population, it's straight up encouraged as something good and cool. "Having to" stop to let pedestrians across, giving way, being overtaken etc is taken as some kind of personal slight that should be punished or made clear to the "offender" that it's unacceptable, by intimidation or abuse or both. It's a bizarre and childish mentality, like kids racing their bikes and have to arrive first or something.

porty 5y ago

I've been living in the US for 4 years now (from Australia) and I find driving in the US, with their inconsistent-to-nonexistent speeding fines have caused driving to be a real pain - everyone drives at different speeds, mostly 10+ mph over. Went to Australia last month - driving was so nice (yes, also to the Gold Coast). Everyone does the same speed (more or less); you can see cars in your mirrors and know they're going to be roughly in the same spot a second or two later when changing lanes :) :)

climb_stealth 5y ago
Thanks for your perspective! This makes me wonder whether wherever one has first learned to drive feels most right. That said I haven't been to the US so not sure what it is like.
windows2020 5y ago
Wonder if there is a correlation between speed limit deviation and trust of government.

oh_sigh 5y ago

It does appear oppressive to someone who is used to +10% wiggle room on the speed limits, but I think a key point of confusion here is that recommended speed and speed limit are two separate concepts, but are conflated into simply the speed limit, and the recommended speed is rarely advertised. And, that hard 3km/h over the speed limit standard also applies in places that have more lenient enforcement, but the driver never knows exactly where the limit is because it is based on the cop's discretion. For example, on most US highways, if the speed limit is 65, you can do 75 without getting a second look from a cop. But if they clock you at 76, you're getting pulled over.

climb_stealth 5y ago
Hmmm, interesting. Does getting pulled over at 76 in a 65 come with more than just a fine? Germany for example has the rule that anything under 18kmh over the speed limit is only a fine that doesn't get recorded otherwise. Only going over that results in demerit points and insurance or license implications. This makes it okay to speed as long as it is safe. Yes there is still the element of it being the cop's discretion but even when pulled over there are no lasting consequences. Australia is much harsher in that regard with any speeding offence coming with demerit points that remain tied to the license for 3+ years. It's ridiculous.