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These systems often fail some of our rights tests. For example, it’s hard to “face your accuser” when it’s a camera. I believe speed cams failed for similar rea

These systems often fail some of our rights tests. For example, it’s hard to “face your accuser” when it’s a camera. I believe speed cams failed for similar reasons in Utah. I do see red light cams in Chicago. I wonder if that’s because they are more politically accepted there. I’m not sure. Maybe I’m wrong about why they went away in Utah. This resource says… [1] > In Utah, the legislature has placed so many restrictions on the use of photo radar -- specifically, banning outsourcing of the ticketing process to private, for-profit companies -- that no city uses speed cameras. This serves as an "effective ban" on photo enforcement. There are reports of them being unconstitutional but they might not be credible.[2] 1. https://www.thenewspaper.com/news/27/2769.asp https://www.thenewspaper.com/news/27/2769.asp 2. https://www.independentsentinel.com/speed-cameras-ruled-unconstitutional-city-has-to-pay-back-ticketed-drivers/ https://www.independentsentinel.com/speed-cameras-ruled-unco...

ceejayoz 5y ago
The right to face your accuser is only in criminal court, which is why the red light cameras in places like Chicago issue only civil fines.
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
We had loads of red light cameras where I am, and while there are still some around the vast majority were removed because they caused drivers who otherwise would have safely blown a yellow to jam on the brakes, much to the chagrin of the person behind them who suddenly had less braking distance. And yeah, people should leave more room, but they don't. So you get enforcement camera-induced accidents, thus defeating the purpose.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  IIRC red light cameras increase rear-ends but dramatically reduce t-boning, which has a much worse fatality rate.
  - JamisonM 5y ago
    And the real issue is most likely too-short yellows!
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - erik_seaberg 5y ago
      The issue is intentionally shortened yellow lights, because the operator often has no incentive to reduce the accident rate but a perverse incentive to increase the violation rate.

ceejayoz 5y ago

The right to face your accuser is only in criminal court, which is why the red light cameras in places like Chicago issue only civil fines.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago

We had loads of red light cameras where I am, and while there are still some around the vast majority were removed because they caused drivers who otherwise would have safely blown a yellow to jam on the brakes, much to the chagrin of the person behind them who suddenly had less braking distance. And yeah, people should leave more room, but they don't. So you get enforcement camera-induced accidents, thus defeating the purpose.

bobthepanda 5y ago
IIRC red light cameras increase rear-ends but dramatically reduce t-boning, which has a much worse fatality rate.
- JamisonM 5y ago
  And the real issue is most likely too-short yellows!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - erik_seaberg 5y ago
    The issue is intentionally shortened yellow lights, because the operator often has no incentive to reduce the accident rate but a perverse incentive to increase the violation rate.