6 ms·

While reading this update, I can't help but think about the book Seveneves whose whole message seemed to be think of what we could accomplish if we just looked

by madrox 5y ago

While reading this update, I can't help but think about the book Seveneves whose whole message seemed to be think of what we could accomplish if we just looked beyond this Red vs Blue crap.

slowmovintarget 5y ago
These aren't arbitrary sports teams. The current world situation is right vs. wrong, not red vs. blue.
- MartinMcGirk 5y ago
  Not that I'm sticking up for Russia here, but I think that assumes that there is a universal canonical "right" and a canonical "wrong", which I am not convinced about.
  - slowmovintarget 5y ago
    It was wrong for the West to taunt Putin with baby steps to perhaps, maybe, someday, having Ukraine in NATO. It was wrong for Zelensky to see the build up of troops on his border and do nothing for a good solid three months leading up to the invasion. But none of that makes Russian troops invading, shelling and bombing hospitals, violating evacuation corridor agreements by firing on fleeing civilians, or any of the other senselessly hostile things they've done OK. They are wrong, their actions are evil. I realize you're not sticking up for Russia, but I do think that if we're talking morals, it doesn't require moral absolutes (which I do think exist, but that's another discussion) to be able to judge the current situation. That is, I don't think condemning Russia's actions requires a priori agreement to a universal canonical moral standard.
- madrox 5y ago
  Regardless of how you choose to phrase it and how unavoidable it may be, it is a detour that's hindering our ability to expand our understanding and improve our way of life.
- Fatnino 5y ago
  Look at pictures from inside the ISS. The walls are literally red on the Russian side and blue everywhere else.
Fellshard 5y ago
Not quite sure that was the message of Seveneves; there was quite a bit of rancor and political sniping that escalated to a horrible climax once the mission was already underway. A 'humanity at its best and worst' book, as Stephenson is fond of making.
WillPostForFood 5y ago
Isn't this exactly and example of looking beyond red vs blue (or east and west)? We should never have been doing joint space mission with Putin's Russia. It just fed Putin money, glory and technology. We lost some of our own space capability, and still got an invasion of Ukraine.
- XorNot 5y ago
  This whole affair is pretty much a culmination in failure of the great thought experiment that started in the 1990s - that the spread of capitalism and trade with dictatorships and authoritarian regimes would undermine those venues and lead to the rise of democracy and other freedoms by opening them to the world. Instead what we've found is we just grant those entities legitimacy and influence over our own affairs, while letting them change not at all. Wealth and power without any of the requisite social development. We've got China building the Great Internet Firewall specifically to keep Western ideas out but let the money come in, and we've allowed our tech companies to freely supply them the equipment and skills to do it.

by madrox 5y ago

While reading this update, I can't help but think about the book Seveneves whose whole message seemed to be think of what we could accomplish if we just looked beyond this Red vs Blue crap.

slowmovintarget 5y ago

These aren't arbitrary sports teams. The current world situation is right vs. wrong, not red vs. blue.

MartinMcGirk 5y ago
Not that I'm sticking up for Russia here, but I think that assumes that there is a universal canonical "right" and a canonical "wrong", which I am not convinced about.
- slowmovintarget 5y ago
  It was wrong for the West to taunt Putin with baby steps to perhaps, maybe, someday, having Ukraine in NATO. It was wrong for Zelensky to see the build up of troops on his border and do nothing for a good solid three months leading up to the invasion. But none of that makes Russian troops invading, shelling and bombing hospitals, violating evacuation corridor agreements by firing on fleeing civilians, or any of the other senselessly hostile things they've done OK. They are wrong, their actions are evil. I realize you're not sticking up for Russia, but I do think that if we're talking morals, it doesn't require moral absolutes (which I do think exist, but that's another discussion) to be able to judge the current situation. That is, I don't think condemning Russia's actions requires a priori agreement to a universal canonical moral standard.
madrox 5y ago
Regardless of how you choose to phrase it and how unavoidable it may be, it is a detour that's hindering our ability to expand our understanding and improve our way of life.
Fatnino 5y ago
Look at pictures from inside the ISS. The walls are literally red on the Russian side and blue everywhere else.

Fellshard 5y ago

Not quite sure that was the message of Seveneves; there was quite a bit of rancor and political sniping that escalated to a horrible climax once the mission was already underway. A 'humanity at its best and worst' book, as Stephenson is fond of making.

WillPostForFood 5y ago

Isn't this exactly and example of looking beyond red vs blue (or east and west)? We should never have been doing joint space mission with Putin's Russia. It just fed Putin money, glory and technology. We lost some of our own space capability, and still got an invasion of Ukraine.

XorNot 5y ago
This whole affair is pretty much a culmination in failure of the great thought experiment that started in the 1990s - that the spread of capitalism and trade with dictatorships and authoritarian regimes would undermine those venues and lead to the rise of democracy and other freedoms by opening them to the world. Instead what we've found is we just grant those entities legitimacy and influence over our own affairs, while letting them change not at all. Wealth and power without any of the requisite social development. We've got China building the Great Internet Firewall specifically to keep Western ideas out but let the money come in, and we've allowed our tech companies to freely supply them the equipment and skills to do it.