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I spent years thinking they [EDIT: Apple's always-top-of-screen application menus, that is] were dumb for that reason. It never occurred to me that major softwa

I spent years thinking they [EDIT: Apple's always-top-of-screen application menus, that is] were dumb for that reason. It never occurred to me that major software vendors would be stupid and/or user-hating enough to ditch the standard top menu, when they have a whole bunch of stuff that should go in it.

layer8 5y ago
The top menu made sense when computer screens were small and the mouse pointer thus never far away from the top, and applications were fullscreen most of the time anyway.
- ziml77 5y ago
  To me it seems the top menu bar is a holdover from early Mac OS. I saw a demo of one of the early versions of the OS, and it made a ton of sense there. The OS could only run a single application at a time, but that application could have multiple windows. From that perspective it's very sensible that whichever application had full control over the screen would want a menu bar global to its own windows. Now though, it's just weird to have the menu bar at the top of the screen. And it's especially strange when there's no windows for the application left but the menu bar for it is still visible (something that wouldn't be strange in the single app at a time model)
  - dhosek 5y ago
    Except that in this scenario, the application is still running, it just has no documents open. It's a nice thing to have because you can close all the documents in say Word, do some other work, and then when you need to open Word again, it's there ready to go without having to load again. The Mac seems to do a better job of having apps hanging out in the background than Windows does.
felix318 5y ago
I seem to recall Steve Jobs saying the reason the menu is at the top of the screen is that it's easier to hit it with the mouse, you just push it all the way up. I think it's a valid point.
- brimble 5y ago
  I've noticed it's really nice if you like quarter- and half-screen layouts (or anything else that's sorta tiling-like). Four different programs on the screen, only one "file, edit, ..." menubar eating space.
- dec0dedab0de 5y ago
  I have had my second monitor on top of my main one for the last 20 years, when I switched to a Mac this was the hardest thing to get used to.
- roughly 5y ago
  Apple's HIG used to have a bunch of these nuggets - things about predictability of where inputs are, what was clickable, etc. Not sure how much has been preserved over the years, but the original docs are pretty legendary.
- dhosek 5y ago
  One nice thing about this too is that when you have something like a full-screen video playing, pushing the mouse to the top of the screen will reveal the menu pretty much universally. Trying to get to the application menu in full-screen on Windows is going to vary from one app to the next and has poor discoverability.
- badestrand 5y ago
  At the same time they don't utilize the 4 most easy to reach points of the screen, the corners. Windows always used those for essential interactions so the interface was really fast to use: for the start menu just throw your mouse to the bottom left corner; to close the window throw your mouse to the top right corner; to show your desktop throw to to bottom right; not sure anymore about the other corner as I am on Mac for a while already. Since switching to Mac I am always thinking about how stupid the interface is for disregarding important user-friendly details like these.
  - DHPersonal 5y ago
    Apple has Hot Corners (configurable in the Desktop & Screen Saver > Screen Saver section of Settings) that can replicate some of the functionality that you described.

layer8 5y ago

The top menu made sense when computer screens were small and the mouse pointer thus never far away from the top, and applications were fullscreen most of the time anyway.

ziml77 5y ago
To me it seems the top menu bar is a holdover from early Mac OS. I saw a demo of one of the early versions of the OS, and it made a ton of sense there. The OS could only run a single application at a time, but that application could have multiple windows. From that perspective it's very sensible that whichever application had full control over the screen would want a menu bar global to its own windows. Now though, it's just weird to have the menu bar at the top of the screen. And it's especially strange when there's no windows for the application left but the menu bar for it is still visible (something that wouldn't be strange in the single app at a time model)
- dhosek 5y ago
  Except that in this scenario, the application is still running, it just has no documents open. It's a nice thing to have because you can close all the documents in say Word, do some other work, and then when you need to open Word again, it's there ready to go without having to load again. The Mac seems to do a better job of having apps hanging out in the background than Windows does.

felix318 5y ago

I seem to recall Steve Jobs saying the reason the menu is at the top of the screen is that it's easier to hit it with the mouse, you just push it all the way up. I think it's a valid point.

brimble 5y ago
I've noticed it's really nice if you like quarter- and half-screen layouts (or anything else that's sorta tiling-like). Four different programs on the screen, only one "file, edit, ..." menubar eating space.
dec0dedab0de 5y ago
I have had my second monitor on top of my main one for the last 20 years, when I switched to a Mac this was the hardest thing to get used to.
roughly 5y ago
Apple's HIG used to have a bunch of these nuggets - things about predictability of where inputs are, what was clickable, etc. Not sure how much has been preserved over the years, but the original docs are pretty legendary.
dhosek 5y ago
One nice thing about this too is that when you have something like a full-screen video playing, pushing the mouse to the top of the screen will reveal the menu pretty much universally. Trying to get to the application menu in full-screen on Windows is going to vary from one app to the next and has poor discoverability.
badestrand 5y ago
At the same time they don't utilize the 4 most easy to reach points of the screen, the corners. Windows always used those for essential interactions so the interface was really fast to use: for the start menu just throw your mouse to the bottom left corner; to close the window throw your mouse to the top right corner; to show your desktop throw to to bottom right; not sure anymore about the other corner as I am on Mac for a while already. Since switching to Mac I am always thinking about how stupid the interface is for disregarding important user-friendly details like these.
- DHPersonal 5y ago
  Apple has Hot Corners (configurable in the Desktop & Screen Saver > Screen Saver section of Settings) that can replicate some of the functionality that you described.