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I agree, I used to think about the possibility for absolute nothingness when I was younger and it terrified me - I still kinda get chills when I do. I don't see

I agree, I used to think about the possibility for absolute nothingness when I was younger and it terrified me - I still kinda get chills when I do. I don't see why the universe has any reason to exist in itself, but I could imagine that being the case for a higher power, which is one of the reasons I do believe in God. Even so, thinking about nothingness still messes with me - I think it's the closest feeling to the literary "staring into the abyss".

emerged 5y ago
It is odd how much materialist strong atheism exists considering it’s literally impossible for there to be nothing bigger than us. The entire materialist context is embedded into a reality we have no explanation for and this gets forgotten or ignored.
- miloignis 5y ago
  I agree-ish - I think you could reasonably hold that the material world must exist for some reason, though I think such a view is weaker than holding that a perfect being like God must exist. More impossible from a materialist perspective to me is the experience of the self - I experience myself in a non-physical way. I can tell (though I cannot possibly prove to anyone else) that I have a self-aware internal life. From the outside it would be indistinguishable from a simulation of one (via computer or via atoms/molecules/neurons), but for every person's internal life they have a self-experience that I don't believe can be explained without the supernatural (a soul or similar). Certainly it's extremely connected to the physical, and chemicals/impulses etc shape my entire experience, but the experience itself is not physical (IMHO).
  - emerged 5y ago
    I don’t know how to explain your feeling of existing in a non-physical way. I feel that way because I’m the only one who exists and you’re all philosophical zombies…
Volundr 5y ago
> which is one of the reasons I do believe in God I've always found this line of reasoning interesting, because to me it just kicks the can down the road. What created the universe? God. Ok, so what created God?
- miloignis 5y ago
  The idea would be that a perfect existence must exist as a part of being perfect, thus God (or some primary existence/force). That may sound handwavey, but lets look at it the other way around - something existed "first" casually, because the universe exists. (Note I'm saying casually, I'm not ruling out something existing "forever" or getting into the existence or nonexistence of time, but something exists/existed without a cause that caused everything else.) Either that primary cause is the universe itself, for some reason, or it was something that caused the universe (force, God, whatever). It's unclear to me why the universe itself needs to exist, and to me the alternative that makes more sense that a perfect being needs to exist and caused the rest of it.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > What created the universe? God. Ok, so what created God? The logical conclusion is that there needs to exist an Uncaused Cause: * https://tofspot.blogspot.com/2014/08/first-way-moving-tale.html https://tofspot.blogspot.com/2014/08/first-way-moving-tale.h... * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-the-existence-of-god https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-... If you're asking "What caused God?": * https://strangenotions.com/if-everything-requires-a-cause-what-caused-god/ https://strangenotions.com/if-everything-requires-a-cause-wh... Generally, starting with the premise "everything has a cause" is where people's problems start.

emerged 5y ago

It is odd how much materialist strong atheism exists considering it’s literally impossible for there to be nothing bigger than us. The entire materialist context is embedded into a reality we have no explanation for and this gets forgotten or ignored.

miloignis 5y ago
I agree-ish - I think you could reasonably hold that the material world must exist for some reason, though I think such a view is weaker than holding that a perfect being like God must exist. More impossible from a materialist perspective to me is the experience of the self - I experience myself in a non-physical way. I can tell (though I cannot possibly prove to anyone else) that I have a self-aware internal life. From the outside it would be indistinguishable from a simulation of one (via computer or via atoms/molecules/neurons), but for every person's internal life they have a self-experience that I don't believe can be explained without the supernatural (a soul or similar). Certainly it's extremely connected to the physical, and chemicals/impulses etc shape my entire experience, but the experience itself is not physical (IMHO).
- emerged 5y ago
  I don’t know how to explain your feeling of existing in a non-physical way. I feel that way because I’m the only one who exists and you’re all philosophical zombies…

Volundr 5y ago

> which is one of the reasons I do believe in God I've always found this line of reasoning interesting, because to me it just kicks the can down the road. What created the universe? God. Ok, so what created God?

miloignis 5y ago
The idea would be that a perfect existence must exist as a part of being perfect, thus God (or some primary existence/force). That may sound handwavey, but lets look at it the other way around - something existed "first" casually, because the universe exists. (Note I'm saying casually, I'm not ruling out something existing "forever" or getting into the existence or nonexistence of time, but something exists/existed without a cause that caused everything else.) Either that primary cause is the universe itself, for some reason, or it was something that caused the universe (force, God, whatever). It's unclear to me why the universe itself needs to exist, and to me the alternative that makes more sense that a perfect being needs to exist and caused the rest of it.
throw0101a 5y ago
> What created the universe? God. Ok, so what created God? The logical conclusion is that there needs to exist an Uncaused Cause: * https://tofspot.blogspot.com/2014/08/first-way-moving-tale.html https://tofspot.blogspot.com/2014/08/first-way-moving-tale.h... * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-the-existence-of-god https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-... If you're asking "What caused God?": * https://strangenotions.com/if-everything-requires-a-cause-what-caused-god/ https://strangenotions.com/if-everything-requires-a-cause-wh... Generally, starting with the premise "everything has a cause" is where people's problems start.