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Amazing to read articles like this given the state of the tech industry. More work is available than I know what to do with. This is structural unemployment. Pe

Amazing to read articles like this given the state of the tech industry. More work is available than I know what to do with. This is structural unemployment. People need to acquire modern skills. I dont think this is a wall st problem, I think wall st just accelerated the inevitable demise of antiquated industries and occupations.

michaelochurch 15y ago
Those people want to "train up" to better jobs. They want that desperately. No one wants to be poor and unskilled. The problem is that they have no savings, and there's no social safety net, and our politicians have become actively mean-spirited because the dumbs equate mean-spiritedness with masculinity. So these people fall into the secondary labor market (jobs that were intended for teenagers and retirees, like in retail) on account of desperation and they can't get out. Skill obsolescence is not the most common cause of this. Unexpected medical problems can do it, too. It's not the fault of "Wall Street" alone. It's the fault of a corrupt, failing political system owned by corporate interests.
scarmig 15y ago
It's meaningless to say it's structural versus cyclical here, unless you're willing to offer proportions. This is a complicated econometric problem, but one obvious telltale sign that structural employment can't explain everything is that virtually every major sector of the economy has shed jobs. If it were entirely structural, you would expect certain sectors to be rapidly accumulating jobs, which we just don't see. Note that Groupon clones will never comprise a major sector of the economy. God willing.
thaumaturgy 15y ago
> People need to acquire modern skills. Sure, but which ones? Programming? There are frequent articles on HN related to how to distinguish good programmers from bad programmers in a hiring context, so newcomers need to have enough time to become good at programming, which requires radical changes in the very nature of the way they think. Then, they have essentially two choices: either a more traditional business environment ("wanted: junior Java programmer with 15 years' experience..."), or a startup ("wanted: rock star Ruby hacker that wants to drink beer with us, you get equity..."). Businesses, including startups and businesses outside of the software-dev industry, are largely reluctant to hire trainees. In the past, it was possible to get hired and then learn how to do the job over a period of a couple of years, or more; prospective employees now are expected to show up with all the required tools and skills, ready to work within an hour of being shown their desk space. What I've been hearing so far from businesses is that they don't have the time or money to invest in an employee, and they don't view employees as a long-term asset anyway.
- jshen 15y ago
  "Businesses, including startups and businesses outside of the software-dev industry, are largely reluctant to hire trainees." I don't know what this is based on. I'm at a fortune 100 company and my last employer was also a fortune 100 company. I hired a lot of people fresh out of college with no experience for both companies. In fact, I've found that it's much easier to find good people coming straight out of school than it is to attract good people that likely already have good jobs. And, I've hired a number of people that have no college or majored in something like music rather than comp sci. Bottom line, if you can show that you know how to code, you'll get a job. Something as simple as writing your own blog software which you can then talk about intelligently. I disagree with localhost3000 too, all people can't be programmers/tech people. That's not a solution.
  - localhost3000 15y ago
    " all people can't be programmers/tech people. That's not a solution." totally agree. i was just using my own experience in the tech industry to demonstrate that there are indeed areas of the economy in which demand for labor outstrips supply. it isn't down down down across the board if someone like me is turning away work.

michaelochurch 15y ago

Those people want to "train up" to better jobs. They want that desperately. No one wants to be poor and unskilled. The problem is that they have no savings, and there's no social safety net, and our politicians have become actively mean-spirited because the dumbs equate mean-spiritedness with masculinity. So these people fall into the secondary labor market (jobs that were intended for teenagers and retirees, like in retail) on account of desperation and they can't get out. Skill obsolescence is not the most common cause of this. Unexpected medical problems can do it, too. It's not the fault of "Wall Street" alone. It's the fault of a corrupt, failing political system owned by corporate interests.

scarmig 15y ago

It's meaningless to say it's structural versus cyclical here, unless you're willing to offer proportions. This is a complicated econometric problem, but one obvious telltale sign that structural employment can't explain everything is that virtually every major sector of the economy has shed jobs. If it were entirely structural, you would expect certain sectors to be rapidly accumulating jobs, which we just don't see. Note that Groupon clones will never comprise a major sector of the economy. God willing.

thaumaturgy 15y ago

> People need to acquire modern skills. Sure, but which ones? Programming? There are frequent articles on HN related to how to distinguish good programmers from bad programmers in a hiring context, so newcomers need to have enough time to become good at programming, which requires radical changes in the very nature of the way they think. Then, they have essentially two choices: either a more traditional business environment ("wanted: junior Java programmer with 15 years' experience..."), or a startup ("wanted: rock star Ruby hacker that wants to drink beer with us, you get equity..."). Businesses, including startups and businesses outside of the software-dev industry, are largely reluctant to hire trainees. In the past, it was possible to get hired and then learn how to do the job over a period of a couple of years, or more; prospective employees now are expected to show up with all the required tools and skills, ready to work within an hour of being shown their desk space. What I've been hearing so far from businesses is that they don't have the time or money to invest in an employee, and they don't view employees as a long-term asset anyway.

jshen 15y ago
"Businesses, including startups and businesses outside of the software-dev industry, are largely reluctant to hire trainees." I don't know what this is based on. I'm at a fortune 100 company and my last employer was also a fortune 100 company. I hired a lot of people fresh out of college with no experience for both companies. In fact, I've found that it's much easier to find good people coming straight out of school than it is to attract good people that likely already have good jobs. And, I've hired a number of people that have no college or majored in something like music rather than comp sci. Bottom line, if you can show that you know how to code, you'll get a job. Something as simple as writing your own blog software which you can then talk about intelligently. I disagree with localhost3000 too, all people can't be programmers/tech people. That's not a solution.
- localhost3000 15y ago
  " all people can't be programmers/tech people. That's not a solution." totally agree. i was just using my own experience in the tech industry to demonstrate that there are indeed areas of the economy in which demand for labor outstrips supply. it isn't down down down across the board if someone like me is turning away work.